Apologies to BK. You were right about gay marriages.

[Ben Kenobi]

I asked for one that would be relevant to atheists. Your sexual hangups are not relevant to anybody.

I can think of plenty. I already said, do not murder, etc. Catch up with the thread.

[Thoth]

Sigh.

We can be more sure that the biblical claims are correct than we can about anything else from that time period.

??? On what do you base that assertion on???

[loinburger]

I can think of plenty. I already said, do not murder, etc. Catch up with the thread.

You said that "do not murder" is logical and reasonable. You are retarded.

[Ben Kenobi]

Someone actually bothered to look it up? Colour me shocked.

Oh, because they think I'm wrong.

Read up. 19:4.

Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female

Right chapter, wrong verse.

[Ben Kenobi]

You said that "do not murder" is logical and reasonable. You are retarded.

You want something that's divinely inspired that atheists will believe.

Atheists don't believe there is anything divinely inspired, ergo, by definition, there's nothing there.

Why are you wasting my time? I already said this.

[Ben Kenobi]

On what do you base that assertion on???

Read up in the thread.

Quoting myself again.

Finally, I was hoping loin would ask this question. How do we know that scripture is true? In the end, we don't. It's a question of textual evidence given that there are no witnesses still alive here on earth.

We can be more certain that the text of scripture is more true and more accurate than any other ancient source from the time period. We have more, and older manuscripts, the oldest complete text dating to around 325 AD in the Codex Vaticanus. There is also the Codex Sinaiticus which dates to around the same period.

There are many partial manuscripts and fragments, some of which are even older, down to about 150 AD or so, about 50 years after the originals would have been written.

Then we have all the Vulgate original manuscripts which date from about 400 AD. These number at about 100 copies when you include all the different formats.

Compare this with Plato, where the oldest manuscript is from 900 AD, and they have a total of 7 copies. Thucicydes is about the same.

So we can be more sure about the bible being true than any other form of ancient history. So it's a choice. Accept both or neither.

[giblets]

Sigh.

We can be more sure that the biblical claims are correct than we can about anything else from that time period.

Stop trying to make this retarded argument. You need to hand in your history degree right now. The bible is relatively close to the original but that doesn't mean the original was accurate.

[loinburger]

So BK, did you start out with an irrational hatred of homosexuals, and then sought out religion to validate it? Because that cherrypicked Jesus quote is laughable.

Give us a timeline here: when did you start hating gays, and when did you find religion (for the first or for the second time, whichever you think is relevant)?

[Ben Kenobi]

Why would Jesus's rising from the dead be relevant to his supposed divinity if other people rose from the dead without being divine?

But they didn't, and they haven't, so he is. Unless you have evidence of other 'non-divine' people who have risen from the dead.

[Asher]

I wonder if Ben truly could ever comprehend how pathetic he is.

[loinburger]

But they didn't, and they haven't, so he is. Unless you have evidence of other 'non-divine' people who have risen from the dead.

There are several non-divine people (aside from Jesus) who rose from the dead in the Bible. Realize that if you ask for the relevant passages then you're merely exemplifying your ignorance of your own religion.

[David Floyd]

You don't have evidence of ANYONE rising from the dead.

Nor have you responded to my last point.

[Ben Kenobi]

Stop trying to make this retarded argument. You need to hand in your history degree right now. The bible is relatively close to the original but that doesn't mean the original was accurate.

No, but this logic applies equally to everything else from the period. Ergo, compared to other sources, you are still stuck.

This is a question about reliability.

If you are retreating to the position that yes, the bible is accurate to what was written, but not to actual events, then this same skepticism must apply to other sources in the same time period, of which we are far less certain that what we have today was what was originally written.

[Ben Kenobi]

There are several non-divine people (aside from Jesus) who rose from the dead in the Bible.

Such as?

[giblets]

Someone actually bothered to look it up? Colour me shocked.

Oh, because they think I'm wrong.

Read up. 19:4.



Right chapter, wrong verse.

Jesus says divorce is wrong because husband and wife have been made one flesh, and you conclude that he would be opposed to gay marriage if he was alive today? That's, um, stupid.