Only Spank the Bad Kids

[MikeH]

Most of the posters with kids haven't posted in this thread. Nice statistical work.

Spanking/smacking could become entirely illegal here at some point. It's already illegal in the EU unless you are the parent and it "does not cause visible bruises, grazes, scratches, swelling or cuts." and completely illegal in some member states.

It's hardly a new finding that not only is corporal punishment no more effective than other punishments, but can have negative lasting results on the child.

I'd support the full ban here.

[Ben Kenobi]

Spanking/smacking could become entirely illegal here at some point. It's already illegal in the EU if it "does not cause visible bruises, grazes, scratches, swelling or cuts." and completely illegal in some member states.

Doesn't the EU also ban things like homeschooling?

I'm pretty sure their motivations have nothing to do with the best interest of the children, and everything with the fact that they believe that children belong to the state and not their parents.

[MikeH]

Doesn't the EU also ban things like homeschooling?

No.

I'm pretty sure their motivations have nothing to do with the best interest of the children, and everything with the fact that they believe that children belong to the state and not their parents.

No.

ps. Children do not "belong" to anyone. Including their parents. They are individuals with their own rights. Some of which are delegated to a parent/guardian. Why shouldn't a child have the same right not to be assaulted that I have?

[trev]

Why shouldn't a child have the same right not to be assaulted that I have?

They have the same right. Smacking is NOT an assault. It is a training method that is used for 2 main purposes
- to punish and deter bad behaviour
- to deter child from going near dangerous situations eg hot sufaces, electricity points, moving traffic. Barriers are prefered option here but not always practical. So No-go zones enforced if necessary with spanking is essential to PROTECT the child. It is NOT ASSAULT

[MikeH]

Other training methods of reward and punishment are at least as effective.

If you can get close enough to the child to smack them you can get hold of them and stop them going wherever is dangerous, then use other training methods of punishment if required.

I think it's odd we have an exception that you can smack your child. I was never smacked by my parents, not a single time. I was very well behaved as a child.

[Jon Miller]

Would you rather your child have the pain of a hot stove or the string of a light slap to associate with the stove to know not to touch it.

I am very limited on physical punishment, by the time a child is ~10 in today's society it is probably best to call the police if other methods aren't working rather than giving physical punishment.

Face it, there are many things in life that have physical consequences. Parents never using physical consequences isn't very reflective of life.

Obviously physical consequences need to be done so that the child doesn't get confused/etc and obviously not so abuse happens. This is why I don't think kids over 10 or 8 or 12 or something should have physical punishment by their parents. Today, it isn't a big part of our culture so the line would have to be crossed in order to make it a real punishment.

My observation is far too many parents don't give their children enough discipline, I rarely see families where it is the other way.

Yes, I know that discipline can be non-physical, and in many/most/all cases (depending on situation and age) non-physical is best.

Parents who physically discipline their kids aren't the ones who are abusing them, from what I have seen. The ones who abuse their kids seem not to have discipline in mind at all.

Removing the option to physically discipline kids just disallows an option to those who are trying to be good parents and provide discipline. It won't have any effect on the abusers at all (which we already have laws for).

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Children do not "belong" to anyone. Including their parents. They are individuals with their own rights. Some of which are delegated to a parent/guardian. Why shouldn't a child have the same right not to be assaulted that I have?

Yes, they do belong to their parents. They are supposed to be there for their children.

Do we permit them to vote?

Parents have the responsibility to care for children, not the state. Yes, you are right that they are individuals but we don't give them the same rights or responsibilities as adults.

I think it's odd we have an exception that you can smack your child. I was never smacked by my parents, not a single time. I was very well behaved as a child.

Great. I was spanked and was also well behaved. That's 1-1 for anecdotes.

[Wezil]

Contract it out to the Catholic Church. They are the experts in child rearing.

[OzzyKP]

Stats are almost always biased towards those administering the study.

The interpretation of stats are also biased toward who is interpreting them. When a study comes out that shows raising the drinking age reduced drunk driving or that teen brains are somehow inferior everyone on this board jumps up and down and says "See Ozzy! See! Youth rights is bull****, science proves it conclusively!"

When a study confirms everything I'm talking about y'all don't believe it. Even when they go out of their way to address the "holes" you guys find. Of course no one cares about the massive holes and biases from the other side.

ps. Children do not "belong" to anyone. Including their parents. They are individuals with their own rights. Some of which are delegated to a parent/guardian. Why shouldn't a child have the same right not to be assaulted that I have?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ozzy:

Right. And when you get your paycheque from this that means you have a bias the other way. Sorry. I cannot follow you on this one. FWIW I agree about the brain study, but I disagree about spanking. There is a difference between 5 year olds and 18 year olds.

[ColdWizard]

I was never smacked by my parents, not a single time. I was very well behaved as a child.

And yet you grew up to be OT mod

IMO, this study is stupid and shows nothing other than we can infer what we want from any isolated case study. Maybe what we should get out of this study is that children who are spanked more often are more likely to have parents who spanked them... oi vey

News reports of studies are generally worthless and at best serve as a starting point.

[Arrian]

I do not plan on spanking my daughter. I don't want to do it, and I don't believe that it will be necessary. We should be able to raise her right without hitting her. My main worry is keeping any anger out of punishment (whatever the punishment may be). That's hard enough with our dogs!

We'll see how it goes.

-Arrian

[Asher]

They have the same right. Smacking is NOT an assault. It is a training method that is used for 2 main purposes

Without taking sides, it seems to me like the same logic can apply to an abusive husband with views that the wife should be submissive to the husband (eg, Ben).

It's interesting that those that defend spanking of children would surely think it unacceptable to smack around their wives.

[Asher]

Contract it out to the Catholic Church. They are the experts in child rearing.

Well played, sir.

[Ecofarm]

Oh? Since when?

Since civilization.

I do as well. Seems to be the majority of people here who actually have kids or deal with them on a regular basis are the ones who favour spanking.

Gee, I wonder why that might be the case.

Sweden (and I presume other Euros) outlawed spanking years ago. They're right, we're wrong.

Hitting a helpless child is battery (in some states, assault is merely a perceived threat). This is simple: one does not solve things by hitting people - don't teach your kids that it does.