Britain versus The Pope

[Heraclitus]

STRAW MAN!

Our equality law isn't saying you have to have quotas, it's saying you can't say "He's not the best person for the job because he's gay/black/white/muslim/christian/female" no matter what your personal beliefs are.

Are you sure about this? Dosen't britain have affirmative action to keep whites out of jobs where they are overrepresented or is that the US?

[Felch]

Quick question, does the new law allow a Catholic to be crowned? I know that the British have had a long history of hateful bigotry against the Catholic Church, and I'm curious if they're sincere about turning over a new leaf.

If Prince Charles converted to Catholicism would he be eligible to be King?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Are you sure about this? Dosen't britain have affirmative action to keep whites out of jobs where they are overrepresented

No. That would be illegal.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Quick question, does the new law allow a Catholic to be crowned? I know that the British have had a long history of hateful bigotry against the Catholic Church, and I'm curious if they're sincere about turning over a new leaf.

If Prince Charles converted to Catholicism would he be eligible to be King?

Well, if the position of monarch was an actual job, where the most suitable candidate was selected by interview, Prince Charles woudn't make the shortlist.

Beyond that point, at present a Catholic would be excluded. A bill is currently in Parliament aiming to change that, but it's a long and difficult process as it has to be accepted by all Commonwealth nations.

[Felch]

The Head of State has duties and is compensated, right? Saying it's not a job is utter horse****.

Your elected Parliament discriminates against a candidate for a government funded office. It does so openly, and has done so for over three hundred years. Yet you're crawling up the Church's backside for doing the same thing? Nobody here voted for the Pope, but you presumably voted for Parliament. Sounds like you might want to think twice about throwing stones.

[Ben Kenobi]

before we wade up a bone-headed tangent let me reassure you that Catholic schools also get direct grants from the British government.

Thank you.

Are they permitted to exclude students of non-Catholic backgrounds?

Oh, and Ming, et al, Tax exemptions are not the same thing as a subsidy. Allowing people to keep their money is not the same thing as giving them other people's money (OPM) in order to run.

[Ben Kenobi]

it has to be accepted by all Commonwealth nations.

True, but Canada is one of the folks pushing for the change. So don't hide behind our skirts.

[Ming]

Thank you.

Oh, and Ming, et al, Tax exemptions are not the same thing as a subsidy.

Sure, the two are different, but that doesn't change the fact that BOTH are Bennifits from the Government. And at the end of the day they are pretty similar in that in both cases, you have more money than if the government didn't step in... whether you keep more of your own, or are given money, it stll means MORE MONEY thanks to a government bennifit.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Do you even read what you post...

Let's see, not having to pay taxes like everybody else... gee, I wonder if that would be considered a benefit from the government... OF COURSE IT IS A BENEFIT FROM THE GOVERNMENT! DUH!

Indeed. That's one of the more stupid things I've ever read. Tax breaks are undoubtably a government benefit.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

The Head of State has duties and is compensated, right? Saying it's not a job is utter horse****.

No. You can't apply to be a king. The payments of the civil list are not conditionally tied to any duties.

Incidentally it enjoys the same sort of exemption from employment laws as those planned to be afforded to Catholic priests.

Your elected Parliament discriminates against a candidate for a government funded office. It does so openly, and has done so for over three hundred years. Yet you're crawling up the Church's backside for doing the same thing? Nobody here voted for the Pope, but you presumably voted for Parliament. Sounds like you might want to think twice about throwing stones.

I repeat, a bill is going through Parliament to end it.

Incidentally, even after that bill is passed, the Catholic church will remain permitted, by statute, to discriminate in appointing priests. Should we then throw stones at that one? You wouldn't want to come across as inconsistent, I hope.

[Ben Kenobi]

And at the end of the day they are pretty similar in that in both cases, you have more money than if the government didn't step in... whether you keep more of your own, or are given money, it stll means MORE MONEY thanks to a government bennifit.

Well sure, except that the former is money that you've earned, the latter is getting money earned by other people.

[Felch]

I'm not inconsistent at all. I'm not asking for the rules to change. I'm just saying that until they are changed, you're a bunch of hypocrites.

I believe that the Parliament has the right to deem certain characteristics as disqualifying. Being a Catholic was a contentious political issue, and it was sensible for the prohibition. I would expect that Spain, France, Poland, and other Catholic kingdoms had similar requirements. Hell, Henry IV is famous for saying, "Paris is worth a Mass."

Likewise, other organizations have the right to extraordinary discrimination in hiring. The Church can refuse to hire anybody they decide is in opposition to their stated interests and goals. If there were a black barbershop that refused to hire whites in favor of the greater interest in retaining the cultural traditions of black barbershops, I'd personally be okay with it. The owners are free to hire whomever they wish, and it's not really my business what somebody else does with their money. If somebody wants to put racial preference over a more qualified candidate, it's their own business. In all likelihood, the market will reward employers who are more openminded.

I think this episode is just a case of European tendencies towards a paternal state. You guys seem to want all good things to come from the government. Looking to the government to make the public sphere courteous led to ridiculous libel laws in England. Similar crybaby nonsense led to the near collapse of the British economy during the 70s. Now you want the government to force the Catholic Church to ignore centuries of its own traditions in favor of hiring gays. Even though everybody know that the Catholic Church is one of the gayest organizations in the world. Obviously there's not going to be any discrimination, there simply can't be. In all likelihood, these positions are already held by homosexuals. But you still want statute to dictate to an organization how it can run its own affairs.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Thank you.

Are they permitted to exclude students of non-Catholic backgrounds?

Yes. Typically they set the top priority for selection to be Catholic baptism, followed by baptism to other Christian faiths.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Likewise, other organizations have the right to extraordinary discrimination in hiring.

"Had the right" is the expression I think you're looking for.

The Church can refuse to hire anybody they decide is in opposition to their stated interests and goals.

In clerical positions, certainly. In secular ones there is no biblical or legal reason for this exemption.

I think this episode is just a case of European tendencies towards a paternal state. You guys seem to want all good things to come from the government. Looking to the government to make the public sphere courteous led to ridiculous libel laws in England. Similar crybaby nonsense led to the near collapse of the British economy during the 70s.

Think you'll find that had far more to do with still rebuilding an infrastructure shattered by WW2 coupled with the oil crisis.

Incidentally, if you think our libel laws are ridiculous just check out the Food Libel laws in numerous US states.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Oh yes, missed one.

True, but Canada is one of the folks pushing for the change. So don't hide behind our skirts.

Not sure about hiding behind skirts. If it was left up to me, we wouldn't have a monarchy at all.