Britain versus The Pope

[MikeH]

BTW, talking of not wanting Muslims to work for the church:

One of the striking things I noticed in both Egypt and Morocco was that Christian and Jewish religious sites (such as WWII cemeteries, churches and synagogues) in both those countries overwhelmingly employed Muslims in positions such as caretakers etc - so clearly they are not practising what YOU preach, Ben.

Exactly!!!

[Ben Kenobi]

One of the striking things I noticed in both Egypt and Morocco was that Christian and Jewish religious sites (such as WWII cemeteries, churches and synagogues) in both those countries overwhelmingly employed Muslims in positions such as caretakers etc - so clearly they are not practising what YOU preach, Ben

Gee, I wonder why. Perhaps someone brighter than I can make the connection...

[MikeH]

I do believe in a freedom of association, so I wonder how far the law goes. I do see what MikeH put, that you can't discriminate solely on the basis of homosexuality, but does that mean that if the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful can the Church refuse to hire someone who believes that homosexual acts are not sinful (ie, is that a way to get around it - because you aren't discriminating on the basis of homosexuality of a person, but whether that person believes in the ideals of the organization - though questions of it being a pretext arise afterwards, etc)?

Having thought about this a bit more. I think what you could specify (and quite justifiably) is that for certain positions you are required to have an extensive knowledge and understanding of Catholic Tenets. Of course someone with extensive cross religion religious education could still meet that criteria, as could a gay person.

[MikeH]

Gee, I wonder why. Perhaps someone brighter than I can make the connection...

Because what religion you are is irrelevant to your performance in virtually all jobs?

[notyoueither]

What is the situation of the priesthood? Are priests not regarded as being employed by the RCC?

[MikeH]

Yeah, they don't count either.

[onodera]

They have a right not to be denied work by anyone purely because of their sexuality.

Okay, this is the point where you and I disagree. I think religious organisations have a right to deny work, aid or counsel if by doing that they would go against their beliefs.

[notyoueither]

Yeah, they don't count either.

There are exemptions then? What are some of them?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

MikeH, I *hate* to side with Ben in this debate, but noncommercial organisations should be able to discriminate against specific sorts of people as long as they do not obtain aid from the secular government.

Regardless of any other point you make, let me assure you that the Catholic church receives extensive aid from the secular government. Foremost among the aid is its tax-exempt status as a charity, even where its profits are obtain from secular business.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because what religion you are is irrelevant to your performance in virtually all jobs?

You believe the requirement is voluntary? There's this thing called Sharia...

[Ben Kenobi]

Foremost among the aid is its tax-exempt status as a charity, even where its profits are obtain from secular business.

Since when is a tax exemption considered a benefit from the government? Is the government paying their bills?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Okay, this is the point where you and I disagree. I think religious organisations have a right to deny work, aid or counsel if by doing that they would go against their beliefs.

I invite any resident theologians to present the biblical instruction not to employ homosexuals in secular roles, so that we can compare it with the apparently relaxed attitude taken to people who burn incense (Isaiah 66:3). Or eat prawns and shrimps (Leviticus 11:10).

If the Catholic church can now live with those abominations, please provide the basis for why homosexuality is different.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Since when is a tax exemption considered a benefit from the government?

I could provide you with the date of the statute or cases in question, but what would be the point?

[Ming]

Since when is a tax exemption considered a benefit from the government?

Do you even read what you post...

Let's see, not having to pay taxes like everybody else... gee, I wonder if that would be considered a benefit from the government... OF COURSE IT IS A BENEFIT FROM THE GOVERNMENT! DUH!

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Incidentally, Ben- before we wade up a bone-headed tangent let me reassure you that Catholic schools also get direct grants from the British government.