Britain versus The Pope

[Ben Kenobi]

Your analogy sucks Moby.

[MOBIUS]

I can see why it makes you think it sucks, because it makes you have to confront your bigotry.

[MOBIUS]

BTW, talking of not wanting Muslims to work for the church:

One of the striking things I noticed in both Egypt and Morocco was that Christian and Jewish religious sites (such as WWII cemeteries, churches and synagogues) in both those countries overwhelmingly employed Muslims in positions such as caretakers etc - so clearly they are not practising what YOU preach, Ben.

BTW Ben, why do you think the Christians and Jews in these countries are not adopting your apartheid policies?

[Ben Kenobi]

BTW Ben, why do you think the Christians and Jews in these countries are not adopting your apartheid policies?

SHARIA. Duh. Do you think they get to choose whether or not to employ Muslims.

[MOBIUS]

What about Sharia? Are you trying to say that Islam is a more enlightened faith than the RCC?

Prove that the Jews and Christians are being coerced into employing Muslims in Egypt and Morocco.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

We dealt with Iconoclasts in the 7th century. Where does it say in scripture that incense is verboten?

He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck ; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Isaiah 66.

[Elok]

You might as well make that same bigoted argument about how many blacks wanted to sit in the front part of a bus in the US in 1955 before Rosa Parks finally did.

...and I would have been answered by a ton of black guys saying "hey, right here, I wouldn't mind that at all." Whereas we're talking about the RCC getting upset about the hypothetical situation of gays actually wanting to work for an organization that despises them and the government subsequently forcing them to hire said gays. It's not very likely, it seems, so this is all a tempest in a teapot. I have never wanted to work for the Nation of Islam or the FFRF, and odds are I never will.

[Elok]

This is a stupid argument, but I feel compelled to point out the bit in the psalms about "let my prayers be set forth before thee as the incense."

[RoboCon]

I tried to get hired by the Nation of Islam so that I could take it down from the inside, but those racists wouldn't hire me. If not for that I might have been able to prevent 9/11.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

You know, your posts would be awesome if you made them in any way clever or funny. Are you new to the "comedy troll" schtick?

[Cort Haus]

Incidentally, Ben- before we wade up a bone-headed tangent let me reassure you that Catholic schools also get direct grants from the British government.

Actually, religion in education is not such a tangent to this, it's very pertinent.

Religious discrimination is legal in schools, and happens very overtly as far as staff are concerned, and certainly happens as far as pupil intake goes. There are over 2,000 RC schools in England, with most of them having some difficulty recruiting a Headteacher when the time comes, partly because of the large numbers of heads reaching retirement age generally, but mostly because a strong Catholic faith is not only a pre-requisite, but usually No 1 on the Person Spec. This reduces the field of applicants, deprives the school of leadership, and can adversely affect the education of the kids in those schools.

Personally, while I strongly believe in equality, I'm not too bothered about what private membership organisations like religions want to do with their employment policies. No church would employ me because of my personal convictions, which means I'm being discriminated against, but I don't care because I'd no more want a job with a religion than with the BNP. I'd actually go along with the Free Association concept on that one.

However, legal discrimination in publicly-funded schools is abhorent, especially when the governing body of a school can openly state that the religious indoctrination of the pupils is the No. 1 priority. Presumably they will no longer be able to discriminate against gay teachers under the new law, should any wish to teach in such an institution (perhaps our polish frog-bothering friend would) but the practice will probably be covertly enforced anyway. I'm not aware of anything in the new bill that will change the situation of religious discrimination.

In fact, the new academies programme, possibly to be massively expanded by an incoming Tory government, where public funding pays for privately-run schools, will see a massive increase in Christian schooling, where creationists are allowed to set their own curriculum. Diocesan bodies are scrambling in the 'gold-rush' to seize control of education, where they can implement legal religious discrimination on hiring policy, to say nothing of the content of the education.

[Elok]

You know, your posts would be awesome if you made them in any way clever or funny. Are you new to the "comedy troll" schtick?

He actually used to be pretty funny when he was still pretending to be a bot. He's gotten to be indistinguishable from Wiglaf lately, tho. Sort of a poor man's Wiggy, really.

[Cort Haus]

Except Wiglaf is still funny.

[Joseph]

And we get back do Laz's question, how exactly does being gay make you less good at the job?

BTW. What would Jesus do? Every time someone told him "Oh, hey Jesus, you can't hang around with them!" for whatever reason he'd go out of his way to hang around with them to make a point.

Can't help thinking if someone said "hey, you can't hire him to do your admin, he's gay!" He'd have gone ahead and hired them whilst telling an informative parable along the lines of not judging others, forgiveness etc.

The same as he told the lady that was being stoned. Go your way and SIN no more.

[MOBIUS]

...and I would have been answered by a ton of black guys saying "hey, right here, I wouldn't mind that at all." Whereas we're talking about the RCC getting upset about the hypothetical situation of gays actually wanting to work for an organization that despises them and the government subsequently forcing them to hire said gays. It's not very likely, it seems, so this is all a tempest in a teapot. I have never wanted to work for the Nation of Islam or the FFRF, and odds are I never will.

It's the same thing actually.

Clearly the bus company despised blacks (though it didn't mind taking money off them!) through its racist policies. Of course those blacks wanted to sit there, but they didn't until Rosa Parks because it was more trouble than it's worth - I mean do you go looking to get arrested and punished just to make a point?

Same with gays wanting to work in the Catholic church. I'm sure plenty of gay Catholics do (or are you trying to pretend there are no gay Catholics!?) want to work for the church but can't do so openly.

Same difference, dude.

Which is why I say that if you're bigoted about one thing like being a homophobic, then chances are you're also racist, sexist etc...

Ben Kenobi is a prime example of this.