How "Christian" of him!!

[Ben Kenobi]

what Robertson said could really be considered an "un-Christian" idea.

Rain falls on both the righteous and the unrighteous. And that's in the OT.

[Ben Kenobi]

There has been a deliberate effort by both the Catholic and Protestant churches to keep Christians from interpreting the NT as anti-Judaismist.

It's anti-gentile if anything. Look at Paul. "How much more blessed will his children be when they return to the table."

Or that whole table scraps conversation with Christ. Yes, Jews are his chosen people, and the Gospels do not change this status, as it was a covenant between God and Israel.

That being said, even though they are his chosen people, that doesn't mean they will be spared from natural disasters or suffering. "God is no respecter of persons".

[Ben Kenobi]

You and Ben are the one's speaking with forked tongues! That passage is very clear, and should be too anyone.

It is clear. You've just got it wrong.

Furthermore, I said, Christ doesn't want us to be fools, and look what you and Ben have done with that!

The whole dichotomy of "fool" and "wise" doesn't apply anymore. And that's a very Christian teaching. Straight out of Corinthians. It's not me or Nikolai to whom you disagree, but Paul and Christ.

If you are going to speak the word of God and claim to be more knowledgable than other people God holds you at a higher standard. Woe unto you!

Sir, you have claimed that for yourself. We are speaking as brothers to one another, and holding you to the same standard. If you hold us to a higher standard than yourself, then you are no Christian.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dogs and pigs aren't particularly stiff-necked and stubborn, asses are. If he was refering to stubborn people he would have called them asses not dogs and pigs.

You've never dealt with either I take it. Why don't you just admit you are wrong? I could quote many, many other people who say the exact same thing. Pearls before swine refers to holy teachings being cast and trampled by unbelievers.

[Boris Godunov]

Rain falls on both the righteous and the unrighteous. And that's in the OT.

That doesn't in the slightest change my point.

[Ben Kenobi]

Robertson's interpretation is unbiblical. There's no justification for it. It's one of the arguments in Job, that because bad things happened to him, that he was a sinner. The whole book of Job refutes that point.

[Boris Godunov]

That doesn't prevent anyone from believing that some sufferings *may* be godly judgment. There are many examples of God visiting horrors on people in the Bible because he was displeased with them. So there is precedent for someone to believe "hey, maybe God was pissed at these people and got himself some divine retribution!"

The only thing that I could see as being un-Christian would be to claim *with certainty* that he knew that's what it was, since the Bible says you can't know the will of God. But in this case, Robertson did not do that. He rather uncleverly left it up to the listener to connect the dots, but he certainly didn't claim he was certain that's what it was about himself.

[Ben Kenobi]

That doesn't prevent anyone from believing that some sufferings *may* be godly judgment.

That is true, and the prophets were very clear about warning Israel beforehand. What they do not do is give an 'after the act' review on it. There's a big difference between the two.

[Berzerker]

While we can all agree what Robertson said is detestable, the Old Testament does have many examples of God raining natural disasters down on people to show his displeasure. Since [most] Christians don't reject the OT, it's not as if what Robertson said could really be considered an "un-Christian" idea.

I think God took credit in the OT

But what stuns me is that Robertson believes God kills the innocent to get at the wicked. Thats evil, Pat, why cant you see that? Because he's an OT Christian, and that is an oxy moron if Jesus is God, or in tune with something beyond our perceptions.

[Kidlicious]

That doesn't prevent anyone from believing that some sufferings *may* be godly judgment. There are many examples of God visiting horrors on people in the Bible because he was displeased with them. So there is precedent for someone to believe "hey, maybe God was pissed at these people and got himself some divine retribution!"

The only thing that I could see as being un-Christian would be to claim *with certainty* that he knew that's what it was, since the Bible says you can't know the will of God. But in this case, Robertson did not do that. He rather uncleverly left it up to the listener to connect the dots, but he certainly didn't claim he was certain that's what it was about himself.

There's only one christian way. Then there is unchristian. There aren't different types of christian.

[Kidlicious]

Sir, you have claimed that for yourself. We are speaking as brothers to one another, and holding you to the same standard. If you hold us to a higher standard than yourself, then you are no Christian.

Twisting words again. I said, by your own witness, you know the word of God better than me, so God holds you to a higher standard.

[DinoDoc]

Because he's an OT Christian,

There's not really a meaningful difference between what you would term an OT Christian and a NT Christian.

[Kidlicious]

Or that whole table scraps conversation with Christ. Yes, Jews are his chosen people, and the Gospels do not change this status, as it was a covenant between God and Israel.

There you go again. I didn't say anything about Jews as an ethnic group. People who practice Judaism are not God's chosen people. It's clear from the Sermon on the Mount. In order go to heaven you have to leave everything and follow Christ.

[Kidlicious]

Quote:
There will be no human domination. Sorry Ben.

Quote:
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life?

Again, 1 Corinthians 6.

I am pleading with you. READ CORINTHIANS!

In this context judge means to make just, or deal with on equal basis, not dominate. It's the same meaning as in God will judge the world.

The word, judge does mean dominate in some places in the Bible, for example, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged," (Matthew 7:1) which means Do not dominate, or you will be dominated, or something to that effect.

[Ben Kenobi]

His covenant, is with his people, who are Israel, regardless if they practice Judaism.

I agree that the promises of the covenant are only available to those who worship Christ, but that does not mean that Jews who do not worship him stop being his people. Gentiles have been 'added on' so to speak.