CanPol: National Unity and Climate Change Edition

[Wezil]

Hamilton is awful in every way possible. The city is so ****ing polluted and ****ty that my satellite radio ALWAYS cuts out for the 5 minute drive past the city limits on the QEW enroute to Buffalo or Niagara. Even if there's not a cloud in the sky, perfect weather...

Believe it or not Hamilton is much better than it used to be. At one time you could smell Hamilton before you got there.


btw, Your brother - older or younger?

[Theben]

That makes no sense on so many levels. For one, most of the people who support extraction from the oil sands live on frigid tundra and would welcome climate change with open arms.

Except all that happens is the permafrost turns into sludge and the vegetation dies.

We've done our time living in ****ty weather, you *******s closer to the equator get to take your turn now.

Uhm, move?

[Flubber]

I am skeptical it can ever be put back the way it was. Maybe it will take a nice picture (from a distance) but the up close view will be very different.

Why- Where the mining operation takes place you have several feet of earth that overlays very oily thick sands. That was the natural state.

I am no expert on reclamation but had always thought it was largely comprised of filling in the hole created by extracting oily sand, by returning the sands (with as much oil as possible extracted) back in the hole and then covering it over with essentially the same dirt that was extracted.Depending on what other contiminants might get added to the sands in the extraction process, you end up pretty much where you started, with dirt over sand. Then with a little seeding I see no reason the area couldn't recover and be much as it was. (I appreciate this is simplistic but why would less oily sands covered by a similar overburden support any LESS vegetation than before?)

[Asher]

What if he gets a job in Toronto?

Then we'll stay long enough for him to get his PEng certification (3 years), then move to Alberta.

Believe it or not Hamilton is much better than it used to be. At one time you could smell Hamilton before you got there.


btw, Your brother - older or younger?

2 years, 2 days younger.

[Ben Kenobi]

Asher is a carpetbagger pretending to be an Albertan. His father and his family is from Ontario, and he's just returning to his roots. I personally don't understand why he hates TO, he's a perfect fit.

[Asher]

Asher is a carpetbagger pretending to be an Albertan. His father and his family is from Ontario, and he's just returning to his roots. I personally don't understand why he hates TO, he's a perfect fit.

Asher is a professional who makes a good salary. Asher goes where the money is and the job is.

As someone with no marketable skill, no talent, and no intelligence it does not surprise me that you don't understand the intricacies of the professional job market. You can get your McJobs anywhere; I can't.

I was born and raised in Calgary. My dad's family is from Ontario (small town outside Ottawa), my mom's family is from Nova Scotia but moved to Ontario when my mom was a child. I've lived 18 years in Calgary, 4 years in California, and 4 years in Toronto. The plan remains to move back to Calgary, as I love the city and the area far more than Toronto...but the realities of the job market and the economy do not really permit it at this time.

Unlike you, I am not satisfied moving around from place to place picking up minimum wage jobs. If I'm moving somewhere, I need to have a good, high-paying job lined up to do it.

[Asher]

I was actually one month removed from moving back to Calgary to live with my 'rents after I got laid off in February. I'd given notice to vacate my apartment by the end of April, and was arranging the logistics of it. It was at that time I got a job offer I couldn't refuse in the Toronto area, and the very few available jobs in Calgary were way below my qualifications. So I signed another one-year lease on a place in Toronto to wait out the economy in Calgary.

It's looking more and more likely we'll need to move somewhere for my SO's jobs (chemical engineers seldom start their careers in big city corporate HQ offices), and at that point I'll start my own solo consulting business. It may or may not be in Calgary. For all I know it could be in Fort McMurray or Saskatoon. Software consultants need not be on site -- most of them are off-site, remote gigs so I could work from a home office while the SO pays his dues and gets his PEng cert.

[Ben Kenobi]

As someone with no marketable skill, no talent, and no intelligence it does not surprise me that you don't understand the intricacies of the professional job market. You can get your McJobs anywhere; I can't.

I've never worked for minimum wage Asher. I was a treeplanter and a delivery driver, and I always made more than the minimum.

I was born and raised in Calgary. My dad's family is from Ontario (small town outside Ottawa), my mom's family is from Nova Scotia but moved to Ontario when my mom was a child. I've lived 18 years in Calgary, 4 years in California, and 4 years in Toronto. The plan remains to move back to Calgary, as I love the city and the area far more than Toronto...but the realities of the job market and the economy do not really permit it at this time.

So why not be happy where you are? I grew up here, I have family obligations tnat kept me here this last year.

Unlike you, I am not satisfied moving around from place to place picking up minimum wage jobs. If I'm moving somewhere, I need to have a good, high-paying job lined up to do it.

Moving around to place to place? I live in PG, where I grew up and where I've spent the majority of my life. I went to Vancouver for school, and then come back. I've never moved away for work, but I'm hoping to change that soon.

Right now I'm tutoring and that's actually going quite well. I've got enough students to pay my bills, and I don't charge 8 dollars and hour.

[Asher]

I've never worked for minimum wage Asher. I was a treeplanter and a delivery driver, and I always made more than the minimum.

The jobs you work and the jobs I work are in different leagues in every possible way. You wouldn't understand.

So why not be happy where you are?

I really don't like Ontario. It's everything about it: the climate, the people, the drivers, the traffic, the smog, the taxes, the sense of political entitlement, etc. It's a necessary evil right now to live there.

As for why I don't move to Calgary, because I'm building a career. I take jobs that permit me to move up the corporate ladder, provide valuable business and technical experience, and pay great salaries and provide good benefits. I won't move to Calgary if I don't have a job lined up, and I'm not going to take menial jobs like delivery truck driving and tree planting to make a living. That's not building a career.

[notyoueither]

Except all that happens is the permafrost turns into sludge and the vegetation dies.

[KrazyHorse]

Uhm, move?

We'd rather just let the beach come to us.

[Ben Kenobi]

The jobs you work and the jobs I work are in different leagues in every possible way. You wouldn't understand.

True, office flunky and owner are chasms apart.

I really don't like Ontario. It's everything about it: the climate, the people, the drivers, the traffic, the smog, the taxes, the sense of political entitlement, etc. It's a necessary evil right now to live there.

As for why I don't move to Calgary, because I'm building a career. I take jobs that permit me to move up the corporate ladder, provide valuable business and technical experience, and pay great salaries and provide good benefits. I won't move to Calgary if I don't have a job lined up, and I'm not going to take menial jobs like delivery truck driving and tree planting to make a living. That's not building a career.

Sigh. Those I did while I was going to school so I didn't have to take student loans. Now, I'm sure you feel those kind of jobs are beneath you, which is why you and Toronto are a perfect fit.

[Wezil]

Why- Where the mining operation takes place you have several feet of earth that overlays very oily thick sands. That was the natural state.

I am no expert on reclamation but had always thought it was largely comprised of filling in the hole created by extracting oily sand, by returning the sands (with as much oil as possible extracted) back in the hole and then covering it over with essentially the same dirt that was extracted.Depending on what other contiminants might get added to the sands in the extraction process, you end up pretty much where you started, with dirt over sand. Then with a little seeding I see no reason the area couldn't recover and be much as it was. (I appreciate this is simplistic but why would less oily sands covered by a similar overburden support any LESS vegetation than before?)

Less bio-diversity. The displaced don't check into the local Holiday Inn and wait for their habitat to be restored.


It seems reclamation is just PR spin anyway.

Working in conjunction with a succession of provincial governments, these industries have spent vast sums in order to revitalize and reclaim the land they have mined, but to date, of the tens of thousands of square kilometers of land damaged by tar sands operations, less than 2% of the area has been cleansed and environmentally refurbished.

From this article: http://informedvote.ca/2009/11/19/th...mine-our-fate/

[notyoueither]

Less bio-diversity. The displaced don't check into the local Holiday Inn and wait for their habitat to be restored.


It seems reclamation is just PR spin anyway.

Working in conjunction with a succession of provincial governments, these industries have spent vast sums in order to revitalize and reclaim the land they have mined, but to date, of the tens of thousands of square kilometers of land damaged by tar sands operations, less than 2% of the area has been cleansed and environmentally refurbished.

From this article: http://informedvote.ca/2009/11/19/th...mine-our-fate/

Yes, there is a lot of bull**** flying, but it comes from both sides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sands

The largest bitumen deposit, containing about 80% of the Alberta total, and the only one suitable for surface mining, is the Athabasca Oil Sands along the Athabasca River. The mineable area (as defined by the Alberta government) includes 37 townships covering about 3,400 square kilometres (1,300 sq mi) near Fort McMurray. The smaller Cold Lake deposits are important because some of the oil is fluid enough to be extracted by conventional methods. All three Alberta areas are suitable for production using in-situ methods such as cyclic steam stimulation (CSS) and steam assisted gravity drainage (SAGD).

compare to...

of the tens of thousands of square kilometers of land damaged by tar sands operations

The area that is surface minable in total (being developed and not yet touched) amounts to less than has been and is planned to be flooded by James Bay hydro.

Where are the histrionics about James Bay?

[notyoueither]

Less bio-diversity. The displaced don't check into the local Holiday Inn and wait for their habitat to be restored.

The areas mined are not that large, Wezil.

The critters will easily repopulate it after reclamation.