CanPol: National Unity and Climate Change Edition

[Asher]

Wezil, I don't see what the big problem. You quoted obviously bull**** articles, no one attacked YOU for them and the articles were debunked quite thoroughly and methodically. Then you've spent half a dozen posts now acting like you were supporting the oil sands by posting such drivel and now we've driven our last crucial supporter in Ontario away...

[embalmer42]

Is Wezil trying to be difficult again? Maybe it's the time of year....

[Flubber]

If in order to be a supporter of the oil sands you must believe they are beautiful and 100% reclaimable then you will have a very difficult time garnering "supporters" in this province.

Nobody states they are beautiful. An open mine operatioon is literally a massive hole in the ground.

"100% Reclaimable" ?? I'm not entirely sure what this means but if you mean that 20 years after digging stops that the place where the hole was will look much as it did before operations started then yes I will go for that.

I make no similar claims on tailings ponds or upgrader sites but the massive areas where the hole is should be reclaimed.

Our pay cheques aren't signed by Syncrude.

Nor is mine although the jobs and taxes and transfer payments have benefitted every Canadian

I'm on board and will spread your gospel but I expect to hear many belly laughs when I state it.

Sarcasm again. I actually expected a better brand of discussion from you. I don't expect you to do anything pro-oilsands . I also am surprised that you seem to brand anyone that says anything that is NOT NEGATIVE as necessarilly being unabashed supporters of the entire project and a beleiver in every aspect of it.

All I have seen 3 people say here is that they believe an open pit mine can be reclaimed well-- Thats hardly a shocking thing to claim or believe

[notyoueither]

If in order to be a supporter of the oil sands you must believe they are beautiful and 100% reclaimable then you will have a very difficult time garnering "supporters" in this province. Our pay cheques aren't signed by Syncrude.

I'm on board and will spread your gospel but I expect to hear many belly laughs when I state it.

I'm not sure what you're looking for.

I don't think the surface mines are beautiful. I don't think any area under active, intensive oilfield development is beautiful. I've seen land bought by the industry for tank farms and work space in conventional fields. It is not a pretty sight.

I do think the land is reclaimable, although it obviously isn't going to be identical to the original. I also suspect that the province is going to be stuck with the tab for some areas when booms go bust and some ventures disappear without completing the job.

I'm actually thinking we would be better to recover the mined areas to forest plantations rather than try to return them to the original state of nature. Leasing out the plantations would relieve pressure on other established forests in the future, and managed plantations could be larger CO2 sinks than unmanaged forests.

I'm not an employee of Syncrude. In fact there are many people here who would prefer a slower pace of development than has been allowed in the past. All of us pay higher prices and suffer poorer service that goes with unrestrained booms, but not all of us benefit significantly financially from it (and some not at all).

I'd actually rather you not spread any gospel, if that means that you would be repeating wildly inaccurate information as you have done here. I don't think it's helpful. If you have information that passes the smell test, and want to pass that on when it comes up, that's different.

[Wezil]

I take it you (Albertans) have finally conceded they are ugly? Lets deal with the second part now shall we?

So are you backing off the reclaimable part? I said I was "skeptical" and had you guys up my ass for days over it.

Flubber - "I make no similar claims on tailings ponds or upgrader sites but the massive areas where the hole is should be reclaimed." **** Flubber! Why aren't you a supporter?

NYE - "I do think the land is reclaimable, although it obviously isn't going to be identical to the original. " OH noes! Not you too NYE?!

What a bunch of dishonest bastards you've all been.

[Wezil]

Is Wezil trying to be difficult again? Maybe it's the time of year....

I get this way when discussions go down the rabbit hole. It's why I no longer engage Ben. Intellectually dishonest.

[Flubber]

I get this way when discussions go down the rabbit hole. It's why I no longer engage Ben. Intellectually dishonest.

I confess I have no idea what you have been on about for a few posts now. In your mind are there only supporters and opposers to oilsands development? Do you not see the possibilities for a more nuanced position.

Did it not occurr to you that someone can see one part of the enviromental damage/ issue being ameliorated/eliminated but still have concerns about the other parts?

Are you denying that a strip mine area can be reclaimed?

Are you just trolling?

[Flubber]

I take it you (Albertans) have finally conceded they are ugly? Lets deal with the second part now shall we?
:

Nobody ever said that a gaping mine was pretty-- It is what it is . . . a huge hole filled with oily sands

AS for my comment on the upgraders , those are industrial sites which will be refurbished and modernized over time . Those sites will probably be in operation 100 years from now so taking about theiir reclamation now seems premature. However they should be little different than any Ontario Chemical plant.

Tailings ponds? I have not done enough background research to know what the deal is with thwm. In one of my first posts I expressed reservations about 'water" so I don't see how my position has changed

[Asher]

I take it you (Albertans) have finally conceded they are ugly?

This is very surreal. You've had three people telling you nothing else for the past couple dozen posts but you've just now recognized what people were saying.

Might be time for a little time away.