Is the Catholic church a force for good in the world?

[Felch]

Pee standing up

[Imran Siddiqui]

I disagree with Rah. Bigotry makes life easier. For example, if I want a nice home cooked meal, I find a woman. If I need my taxes done, I find a jew. If I lock my keys in my car and don't feel like calling AAA, I find a negro.

Stereotypes simplify life.

As for defined gender roles, of course not. Not all women are the same and not all men are the same. Not everyone fits into the same defined pattern. Some men are more "touchy-feely" than most women (besides, what is the horrible thing about having a touchy-feely [I mean emotionally, not physically] priest? For many people, coming to Christ is a very emotionally experience and someone who is more emotion may be able to better connect).

[Ben Kenobi]

I think we've already established that you're the only openly sexist person in this discussion, i.e. it's a safe bet that everybody's answer is going to be a resounding "no."

So your answer is no. You believe that there are no fundamental difference in the way in which men and women operate?

As for what women can do, a better question is what do women do better on average then men. I think women are better with kids, better at teaching them and dealing with them. I think women in many cases are better verbally in expressing themselves and in communicating with others.

I think women are better socially, in that they are more adept in working with group dynamics. I think women make better nurturers in that they are more sensitive and aware of their surroundings. They are better able to tell if something is 'out of place' and be able to fix exactly what it is. Women are better at following landmark directions.

Men, I think they are better at abstract thinking and reasoning. I think they are better with spatial tasks and design. I think men are better with risk, taking them and working with them. I believe that men are stronger physically and they are more capable of doing dangerous tasks. I think that men are better at problem solving. Men are better at following vector directions.

That being said, we each have our own individual gifts which can tip us on either side of the line.

[loinburger]

As for what women can do, a better question is what do women do better on average then men.

No, that's not a better question in this context - you don't bar somebody from a vocation because their demographic group is "inferior on average" to another demographic group. If you say "(my observation is that) on average women are better nurturers than men" then that's one thing, but what you're saying is "(my observation is that) on average women are better nurturers than men therefore only women should be allowed to raise children, only women should teach elementary school, only women should be daycare workers, etc."

[Ben Kenobi]

For many people, coming to Christ is a very emotionally experience and someone who is more emotion may be able to better connect.

It's a mile wide and an inch deep. You need the emotion and the logic behind it. Yes, it's an emotional experience, but it has to be backed by truth. If it's just emotion, then it's going to get washed away, and that's what we are seeing happening to the Anglican church.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, that's not a better question in this context - you don't bar somebody from a vocation because their demographic group is "inferior on average" to another demographic group.

Then you grossly misunderstand what is going on here. Priests all have spiritual gifts that are peculiar to them, and beneficial to their office. If those gifts are lacking, then you will not be a priest. Simple as that. A women with the talents of the office is not going to be as good as a man with the talents for the office. It's not comparing the 'average' woman to the 'average' man, or even comparing the 'best' woman to the 'worst' man as you are trying to do.

This is comparing the best men to the best women. The vast, vast majority of men are utterly unsuitable to the job.

WRT to teaching, most elementary educators are women. Most nurses are women. Is this a bad thing?

[loinburger]

Then you grossly misunderstand what is going on here. Priests all have spiritual gifts that are peculiar to them, and beneficial to their office. If those gifts are lacking, then you will not be a priest. Simple as that. A women with the talents of the office is not going to be as good as a man with the talents for the office. It's not comparing the 'average' woman to the 'average' man, or even comparing the 'best' woman to the 'worst' man as you are trying to do.

This is comparing the best men to the best women. The vast, vast majority of men are utterly unsuitable to the job.

So your personal observations have been sufficient for you to judge all of the best male and female priest candidates? Because you've just crossed the line from "indefensible" territory into "ridiculously indefensible" territory - you can't even use things like demographic comparison of aptitude tests for spatial awareness or whatever if you're comparing two sets that exist wholly within your own mind.

[Lorizael]

I think women in many cases are better verbally in expressing themselves and in communicating with others.

I think women are better socially, in that they are more adept in working with group dynamics.

This study would seem to disagree with your assessment.

[Boris Godunov]

I think women are better socially, in that they are more adept in working with group dynamics. I think women make better nurturers in that they are more sensitive and aware of their surroundings. They are better able to tell if something is 'out of place' and be able to fix exactly what it is. Women are better at following landmark directions.

Men, I think they are better at abstract thinking and reasoning. I think they are better with spatial tasks and design. I think men are better with risk, taking them and working with them. I believe that men are stronger physically and they are more capable of doing dangerous tasks. I think that men are better at problem solving. Men are better at following vector directions.

So you think women are better as nurturers, teachers and working with a group, and that men are better at physical tasks and spatial relationships. Ergo, only men should be priests.

Dear god.

[Boris Godunov]

WRT to teaching, most elementary educators are women. Most nurses are women. Is this a bad thing?

Where are men barred from being elementary teachers or nurses?

[loinburger]

This study would seem to disagree with your assessment.

Irrelevant - that study compares averages, not "the best."

[BlackCat]

It's a mile wide and an inch deep. You need the emotion and the logic behind it. Yes, it's an emotional experience, but it has to be backed by truth. If it's just emotion, then it's going to get washed away, and that's what we are seeing happening to the Anglican church.

But the logic is based upon emotion, not truth - even hardcore religinistas agree that you can't prove religion and thereby define it as truth.

[BlackCat]

Pee standing up

Women can do that too, it's just that modern toilets doesn't actually encourage such

[Lorizael]

Irrelevant - that study compares averages, not "the best."

Au contraire. Undergrads from a small, Northeastern college are clearly "the best."

[Ben Kenobi]

So your personal observations have been sufficient for you to judge all of the best male and female priest candidates?

My observations coincide with the experts here. By all means, ridicule them, but the Catholic church has the most experience in doing this, and they are unequivocally set on men only.

Because you've just crossed the line from "indefensible" territory into "ridiculously indefensible" territory - you can't even use things like demographic comparison of aptitude tests for spatial awareness or whatever if you're comparing two sets that exist wholly within your own mind.

Why not? You've already admitted that men are better at some things than women are, I would trust the folks who've been doing it longer than anyone, over speculators who know very little of what's involved in a seminary.