I really, really hate smokers

[Elok]

Of course, many times.

Yeah, I figured, but I hadn't seen it in this thread yet so I thought I'd chuck it out there. Hey, WTF is ? I thought we got the original thumb-smileys back. Damn, that's ugly...ditto for . They don't look like hands so much as disfigured or melted gummi bears.

EDIT: Oh, I see, they just haven't changed the images in the quick-smileys menu. N/M. BK, I have time to kill until dinner, so I might as well point this out: you are aware that serial monogamy is quite common in heteros as well, aren't you? And I doubt whether anyone, gay or straight, bothers to get repeatedly married and divorced when changing partners ten times a year, so your point is doubly moot.

Second Edit: Wait, what the hell?

'committed' partners (ie, been together more then 3 months), have on average about 10 partners in a year"

Been together more than three months * 10 partners a year AVG = 30 months per year. Or are you suggesting that gays have nine partners in as many months, then have a committed relationship for the remaining three? How on earth do those statements fit together?

[Ben Kenobi]

BK, I have time to kill until dinner, so I might as well point this out: you are aware that serial monogamy is quite common in heteros as well, aren't you?

Among straight married people? No, not really. Among single folks, sure, but not among the married folks.

I doubt that most straight folks have anywhere near 10 partners in a year.

And I doubt whether anyone, gay or straight, bothers to get repeatedly married and divorced when changing partners ten times a year, so your point is doubly moot.

The point is that they have a different concept of monogamy. This is while they say they are in a 'committed relationship', not between them.

Been together more than three months * 10 partners a year AVG = 30 months per year. Or are you suggesting that gays have nine partners in as many months, then have a committed relationship for the remaining three? How on earth do those statements fit together?

No, I'm saying that while they have a relationship with one person, that they label as a 'committed relationship', that they have sex with, on average, about 10 other people over the course of the year.

[Asher]

Welcome to my world, circa 2000.

The problem is twofold.

1. Gay people aren't very interested in marriage. We had an initial burst, but the only gay marriages done in Canada these days are done on folks from abroad.

LOL

Gay people aren't very interested in marriage? Based on what? I guarantee I know far more gay people than you do and can say this is unequivocally false. If gays were not interested, then we wouldn't find it a big deal if we weren't allowed to. This is CLEARLY false.

2. Gay people's concept of monogamy is one at a time. The statistics have shown that 'committed' partners (ie, been together more then 3 months), have on average about 10 partners in a year.

This is incredibly offensive.

**** you and if Ming had balls, he'd ban you.

[Elok]

Really? Asher, BG, Q, other gay polytubbies: would your boyfriends/hubbies/SOs object if you nailed some random dude you met at a bar? Assuming you have boyfriends/etc, that is. Regardless, is there some general understanding that "monogamy" means "boning everything that moves while keeping one dude on standby as a sort of reference point?" I know nothing about the gay subculture, and am very glad BK is around to share his vast experience on the subject.

[Asher]

To elaborate, I find it incredibly ****ing offensive that Ben consistently and apologetically refers to "gays" as some kind of sub-hetero, predictable and uniformly identical group. I find it incredibly ****ing offensive he repeatedly tries to tell us what "gays" want and what "gays" are interested in top of it.

The implicit and occasionally explicit degradation of the status and humanity of gay people is really sickening and it needs to stop.

Either Ben needs to learn to shut the **** up and NEVER open his mouth with his thinly veiled hatred, or he should be banned when he does.

[Asher]

Really? Asher, BG, Q, other gay polytubbies: would your boyfriends/hubbies/SOs object if you nailed some random dude you met at a bar? Assuming you have boyfriends/etc, that is. Regardless, is there some general understanding that "monogamy" means "boning everything that moves while keeping one dude on standby as a sort of reference point?" I know nothing about the gay subculture, and am very glad BK is around to share his vast experience on the subject.

Ben doesn't know the first ****ing thing about any relationships, hetero or not. He's a perpetual virgin and he doesn't know a damn thing about sex either.

I'm in a long-term, committed, monogamous relationship and I know many other gay couples in the same boat. Yes, my SO would be irate if I nailed some random dude I met at a bar.

[Ming]

Gee... some of his comments sound just like your anti smoker comments...

The fact is, Ben has no clue what he is talking about, and that's not a banable offense.

However, telling another poster to "**** you" is.
So chill.

[Elok]

Yeah, on second thought I guess I shouldn't expect you to find this as amusing as I do. To me, Ben's talk is like going back in time to medieval Europe and hearing them talk about how the "Mahometans" sacrifice their children to devils and hold a special Mahometan mass where they kiss the devil's backside. I don't think it's hatred so much as profound ignorance combined with an unshakeable conviction that one's own way of life is best. But then, I haven't spent so much time arguing with him.

[Ben Kenobi]

Gay people aren't very interested in marriage? Based on what? I guarantee I know far more gay people than you do and can say this is unequivocally false. If gays were not interested, then we wouldn't find it a big deal if we weren't allowed to. This is CLEARLY false.

Just because it upsets other people says nothing about the desire for gay marriage as a whole. It's a fact that the vast majority of gay marriages here in Canada are 'marriage tourism' where folks from abroad come to Canada to get married.

This was never the intent of the law, and when challenged, it was dismissed as 'fearmongering'. Yet, so far that has been the case. I sincerely doubt Canada wanted to become the gay marriage capital of the world, yet that is what we have become.

This is incredibly offensive.

Offensive or not, it's the truth. I don't see why I ought to be banned as I've not attacked you personally in any way shape or form.

[Asher]

Gee... some of his comments sound just like your anti smoker comments...

Oh, don't bother with this nonsense. You choose to smoke, and anyone who chooses to smoke has to be some kind of stupid. Don't tell me otherwise, you know exactly what it does to you and you don't care. That's on you. It's a choice. Fair game.

The fact is, Ben has no clue what he is talking about, and that's not a banable offense.

Racism isn't a banable offense, then?

Just so we're clear...you can systematically degrade on the basis of race and sexual orientation and not get banned?

You sure this is the way you wanna go, Ming?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben doesn't know the first ****ing thing about any relationships, hetero or not. He's a perpetual virgin and he doesn't know a damn thing about sex either.

So your only response to my argument is to attack the person?

I'm in a long-term, committed, monogamous relationship and I know many other gay couples in the same boat. Yes, my SO would be irate if I nailed some random dude I met at a bar.

Good for you. Where did I say anything about you personally? Anecdotes are one thing, but statistics are another.

I think it's interesting that when the anecdotes align with political correctness that they are regarded as the gospel truth.

[Asher]

Just because it upsets other people says nothing about the desire for gay marriage as a whole. It's a fact that the vast majority of gay marriages here in Canada are 'marriage tourism' where folks from abroad come to Canada to get married.

If it's a fact, ****ing prove it.

Offensive or not, it's the truth. I don't see why I ought to be banned as I've not attacked you personally in any way shape or form.

It is NOT the truth, not even close. And you personally attack me every time you imply or explicitly talk about gays as a systematic entity like you do here. It's dehumanizing.

Honestly, Ben is about two more posts like this away from me making a complaints to the Human Rights Commission. If only because I know how much he hates it, and he knows it'll be a ****ing pain in the ass.

[Ben Kenobi]

Racism isn't a banable offense, then?

I know black people and other minorities that are offended by this comparison, that the things they have suffered are at all comparable to the choices that gay people make.

I have no clue that anyone is gay, unless they make it an issue. Black people on the other hand don't have a choice. I should think that if you spent a day in their shoes that you would understand.

Just so we're clear...you can systematically degrade on the basis of race and sexual orientation and not get banned?

What are you afraid of asher? If you don't like the idea the solution is to argue against the idea, not to ban the person for expressing the concept.

Much of what you say offends me. Boo hoo. The real world is difficult that way. People are going to offend you all the time. Deal with it Asher.

[Ming]

I personally find many of your anti smoker comments personal... You are attacking a whole group of people as well. Now, you aren't advocating killing them, or setting up hate groups against them... so it isn't racisim.

Neither is Ben... He is just stating what he thinks are facts that support his pov. It is obvoius that he thinks gay sex is a sin... He is welcome to that opinion.

Since you are gay, you are taking his comments too personally... even though they are not directed specifically at you (unlike your direct personal attacks against him) I'm sure some smokers feel exactly the same way about this thread title, and the comments you have made as well.

[Asher]

So your only response to my argument is to attack the person?

These are facts. The fact that you find it offensive is simply your value judgement on your own life.

Good for you. Where did I say anything about you personally?

You talked about "gays" universally , I am gay. Basic logic.

Anecdotes are one thing, but statistics are another.

You are a ****ing liar and have shown no statistics.

I think it's interesting that when the anecdotes align with political correctness that they are regarded as the gospel truth.

I think it's interesting you have no ****ing idea what a fact is, or when citing statistics as your reason for your opinion you need to actually ****ing cite statistics.

Holy ****, Ming. You're going to need to ban Ben here or ban me, because this is going to get nasty.

Perhaps you're not aware how deeply offensive Ben is being here to homosexuals. Not on a superficial level like calling people stupid or dumbasses, but on a very deep personal level. It's not unfair to equate what Ben spews on here to racism, and I doubt you'd let a black man get into an argument with a blatant racist on these forums.