The Canadian Federal Election will probably be October 14th

[Wezil]

Oncle - I'm flattered by your use of my quote in your sig line but I must confess I don't what the context was... Do you remember?

[Fake Boris]

You where whining about gas stations forcing you to see/hear ads at the pump. I said there was no such thing in Quebec (yet), and there you go.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177977&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Flubber
Sample size is one issue but your other comment reveals what could be a big bias in a poll. Polling only those people that watched a debate adds a political interestedness bias into the mix. Make it a french language debate and you probably exclude many anglophones

The language issue doesn't matter much, given that the Bloc only wins ridings with a significant French-speaking majority.

There is perhaps one rare exception, and that would be Laurier/Sainte-Marie, which seems to concentrate the pro-separatist immigrants of Montreal. In any case, this is Duceppe's own riding, so it's not like it's threatened anytime soon.

edit: to that I should add that the francophone leftist vote in hopeless ridings tend to go NDP (in this election at least). Still better with a federalist leftist than with a Tory...

[Asher]

Quebec does it worse, they force me to see/hear French all the ****ing time. A punishment no one deserves.

[Fake Boris]

I see that Aggie has gotten through you. What does "seeing" French look like? Does its platonist ideal form look good?

[Ben Kenobi]

The gay marriage fight is over in Canada, feel free to fight it within some church or whatnot but for most Canadians it is now a dead issue.

That's not what I hear. Most folks I talk to are still angry about it and they feel that the things that are important to them are being pissed on.

But that's ok. We won't have a Canada much longer to fight over anyways. Why should the same people fight and die for a nation that has no respect for their beliefs?

Why should they stand against the people who hate and want to destroy Canadians and their way of life? I don't see any reason to fight for the Canada of today. If modern day Vikings were to sail up the Saint Lawrence and sack Toronto it wouldn't make a difference to me.

In ten years with gay married people around us everywhere raising there families etc etc, 90% of people will wonder what all the fuss was.

Just like no-fault divorce is a settled issue too. The problem is that we are still dealing with the aftermath of these 'social' innovations, and people are getting hurt badly by the way the modern world works. It's like getting sand in the gears. The motor runs well for so long, and then eventually it just dies and gives up.

But if harper tried to make gay marriage or abortion issues again, he would lose my support for evermore. I want my government to start managing the economy better and dealing betterwith employment and infrastructure and medical care . ANY focus he puts on those "social conservative" matters would be too much .

Why? Why do social conservatives have to buy economic conservative ideals, but economic conservatives don't have to buy social conservative ideals? I don't get it. To me they fit part and parcel, and I really don't understand why so many so-called conservatives see the social conservative ideals as anathema.

If I talk to the folks who I know on a regular basis, and not polytubbies, it's a much different picture. They see the two of them as connected. One of the reasons why social programs are in higher demand is because of the new social innovations that are placing a greater strain on things. They see the family as essential in order to get things back in order because the family is a much more efficient unit of organisation then the alternatives.

If he went in that way he would turn me from a probable conservative supporter into someone that would be passionately anti-Conservative.

The conservatives would be better off without you then. If you can't stomach social conservative ideals, in exchange for fiscal conservative ones, then it really doesn't work. Parties are a coalition. Social conservatives and fiscal conservatives need to work together.

And Ben? there are enough people just like me that if he went that route, Harper would never ever ever be close to being PM again. I know it, Stephen Harper knows it and Ben in your heart of hearts, you know it too.

Harper isn't going to get a majority because enough folks like me have bailed and will continue to bail on Harper. You need to have a party with BOTH social and fiscal conservatives together to be effective, and the sooner the fiscal conservatives get that, then the Conservatives will return to their winning ways.

I'm not talking about giving up what you strongly believe, but I honestly believe if social liberalism is more important then fiscal conservatism, then you belong in the Liberal party. That's the party that was made for you.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'll even do a table

Strong Socon Strong Socon
Strong Fiscon Weak Fiscon

(BK)

Weak Socon Weak Socon
Strong Fiscon Weak Fiscon

Strong Socon Strong FisCon
Weak FisLib Weak SoLib

CONSERVATIVES

.......................................

MIDDLE

WeakSocon Weak FisCon
WeakFisLib Weak SoLib

.......................................

LIBERALS

Weak FisCon WeakSoCon
StrongSolib StrongFisLib

(Flubber)

Weak FisLib Weak SoLib
Strong SoLib Weak FisLib

(Asher)

Strong Solib Weak SoLib
Strong FisLib Strong Fislib

[Fake Boris]

Cronos, two things.

1. Why did you say that polling a sample that has watched the whole debate is skewed towards the Bloc?

2. What do you understand as the "artists' propaganda"?

[Asher]

Ben, what is so difficult to understand.

Canada is not socially conservative. Some people are. Most aren't.

In order to get a majority government, the conservatives need to not be socially conservative.

Anything else you say is disconnected from reality.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why?

They only need 40 percent of the electorate, and if folks who were weak social liberals and strong fiscal conservatives would vote for them, they would have it.

I am asking folks who believe that fiscal conservativism is more important then social liberalism, why they would be unwilling to compromise with social conservatives and support them in exchange for fiscally conservative ideas.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why?

They only need 40 percent of the electorate, and if folks who were weak social liberals and strong fiscal conservatives would vote for them, they would have it.

Ben. They wouldn't get 40% of the electorate. They've NEVER gotten 40% of the electorate with a socially conservative view FOR A REASON.

I am asking folks who believe that fiscal conservativism is more important then social liberalism, why they would be unwilling to compromise with social conservatives and support them in exchange for fiscally conservative ideas.

Because true freedom is a value Canadians hold dearly. While I hate high taxes, I hate repressive authoritarians most. Most Canadians are aligned with that, which is why the Reform party failed. Get over it. Seriously.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Cronos, two things.

1. Why did you say that polling a sample that has watched the whole debate is skewed towards the Bloc?

First; The debate was in French; English speaking people are not voting for the Bloc.

Two; It also plausible that more people who are partisan of the Bloc Quebecois watched the debate.

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
2. What do you understand as the "artists' propaganda"?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.

Do you mean this:
"Qu'est-ce que j'entends par la propaghande des artistes?

"What do you mean by "artist propaganda"?

[Asher]

I think he's asking for examples of artist propaganda.

[CrONoS]

oohhh..

My God you don't read french speaking newspaper, watch french speaking television.

Each day, Le Devoir (my roommates subscribed to this newspaper) published many opinions texts from well known artist criticizing Harper for his cut in the culture subsidize. The editorial team was also very virulent(each day, at least one text against Harper). For having read frequently La Presse it was also the same thing from many reporter (I don't know the english word for Chroniqueur).

I heard many stupid arguments (few of them were making sense). One of their last arguments was that the artists are representing the Quebeckers culture; and so Harper attacked the Quebec souls by cutting 30M$ subsidy to culture. That's what I call propaganda... And it seems that it worked...

Did you also watched le gala des prix gémeaux, Tout le monde en parle; or the youtube video with Michel Rivard.

Really the debate on culture become a disproportionate issue and that's for 30M$. Each day of the last two week; the artist supported by the mainstream medias attacked Harper on each front. (Even when the ADQ was strong during the last election, I never heard so much irrationnal attack)

I would also like to say; that the "meme" Haper = Bush, began to be said by the artist 2-3 weeks ago, and become utilized by Duceppe and Dion lastly.

[CrONoS]

Also; calling them entertainer is a much more correct word.