The Canadian Federal Election will probably be October 14th

[Ben Kenobi]

You'll never get enough votes to get a prime minister with a social conservative platform in Canada. It just will never happen.

Why not? The majority of Canadians agree with both positions.

If that were true, you wouldn't be trying to govern my private life with your black book of values.

How am I trying to govern your life? You are asking me to pay for your lifestyle. I'm going to pass on that, sorry.

So you don't think the government should get involved in consensual adults getting married, or in a woman's choice for an abortion?

Yes I agree with that. If people want to call themselves married, they should be able to go ahead and do so. They shouldn't be able to claim government recognition of their status either.

As for abortion, I think the state has an obligation to protect the weak and the helpless and that includes the unborn.

You say you don't like big government, but that's not true. You love big government when it serves your interests, you hate it when it takes your money. You want it both ways, but you can't do that.

How so? The government has obligations to protect people from harm, and that includes unborn children. I don't see how we can say it is wrong for people to harm a mother with a child and killing her unborn child and wrong for them

Why do you mix social and finance? Why the **** are abortion/gay marriage financial issues for you? What the **** is wrong with you.

That was the argument. Fiscal conservatives and social conservatives need to give stuff up to work together.

I've never said anything about publicly funded abortion,

I'm saying it now. You as a libertarian, do you support tax funded abortion? I think you are a statist, I've never heard a libertarian opinion out of you.

Absolutely. The state should have no role at all in marriages.

Why is fairness an issue? Government intervention would be wrong, period. Fairness is only an issue to statists. Give me money because other people get it is NOT a libertarian position.

There's no ****ing way that will happen.

Then we don't need more statists calling themselves conservatives.

I will not give up my personal freedoms to save 2% on income tax. Sorry, you'll never get your way in Canada...you best accept that and move on.

So taking money out of other people's pockets is a personal liberty? That's an interesting position. You are a statist asher, you want other people to pay to support your lifestyle.

Gay marriage isn't being taught to kindergartners, you ****ing liar.

K-12. It is. You dare me to find a source?

No they aren't, you ****ing liar.

Then why are there no bibles in public schools if the dreaded social conservatives are forcing their views on everybody?

It's clearly the other way around. Look at Harper, he's playing you religious nutters like idiots and you don't even know it. He promises to make gay marriage a vote in parliament, he does, and he knows it'd be upheld, and it was. He lets "private member bills" be proposed pertaining to abortion, but he knows they'll never get passed, and they don't.

You think we are gonna support a ride to a majority? I'm sorry Asher. The funny part is you statists think you can ride Harper to a majority.

Dion will get on before Harper does.

The religious right in Canada -- thankfully -- is sufficiently small and sufficiently stupid that they can be played like idiots, which is what's happening. You've got it all backwards. If you want fiscal conservatism, YOU need to accept social liberties as well.

Why? Fiscal liberals won't accept our social programs. Why should social conservative compromise on the issues that they care about?

Good luck riding Harper to a majority without us.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why not? The majority of Canadians agree with both positions.

If they did, Day would've been elected leader again and elected PM. They don't.

How am I trying to govern your life? You are asking me to pay for your lifestyle. I'm going to pass on that, sorry.

I'm going to delete the rest of your post because of this seriously universe-warping stupidity. I can't take any more tonight.

How the **** would me marrying my partner of 5.5 years in a private ceremony ask you to pay for my "lifestyle"?

BTW: My ideal outcome is a Harper minority. I don't know I want a Harper majority. I just know I don't want the NDP or the Green Shift.

[Ben Kenobi]

If they did, Day would've been elected leader again and elected PM. They don't.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2003/09/04/samesexpoll030904.html

Here's a poll that shows the majority of Canadians opposed the redefinition of marriage.

At the very least, the support of those who support traditional marriage is stronger then the support of the Conservative party nationwide. If the conservatives were to adopt a plank to overturn the definition of marriage, they would see an increase of support in majority territory nationwide.

As for abortion

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/nov/06110908.html

http://www.abortionincanada.ca/facts/what_canadians_think_about_abortion.html

Here are polls showing 2/3rds support abortion being defunded.

Sounds like both positions are winners for Mr. Harper. Why doesn't he endorse them?

How the **** would me marrying my partner of 5.5 years in a private ceremony ask you to pay for my "lifestyle"?

You said you wanted taxpayer recognition of your status because of "fairness".

If you believe that support for marriage is wrong, then why are you wanting to take money that you don't deserve?

Some libertarian!

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2003/09/04/samesexpoll030904.html

Here's a poll that shows the majority of Canadians opposed the redefinition of marriage.

YOU ARE A ****ING LIAR.

First of all, that's 5 years old.

Second of all:

65% say homosexual couples should be treated the same as heterosexual couples

**** off with your lies.

Sounds like both positions are winners for Mr. Harper. Why doesn't he endorse them?

Because they are NOT winners, they would ensure he lost.

You said you wanted taxpayer recognition of your status because of "fairness".

If you believe that support for marriage is wrong, then why are you wanting to take money that you don't deserve?

Some libertarian!

What money am I ****ing taking? Since when did the government hand out money to newlyweds? Am I missing something?

I believe it's wrong for the government to be involved in marriage, but AS LONG AS IT IS, there needs to be fairness. This is not a difficult concept.

[Ben Kenobi]

First of all, that's 5 years old.

Then find a newer one which contradicts it.

65% say homosexual couples should be treated the same as heterosexual couples

Yes, and where does it say that all heterosexual couples are entitled to marriage? I don't see that at all. The state is discriminating against some heterosexuals because it doesn't recognise their relationships as marriage.

Because they are NOT winners, they would ensure he lost.

Why should the conservative party adopt the policies of the left which always loses? More people support these policies then they support the conservative party. I don't see why they would be losers when you have 3 liberal parties arrayed against you.

What money am I ****ing taking? Since when did the government hand out money to newlyweds? Am I missing something?

So marriage has no financial and tax benefits? Why are you whining about discrimination if there is no difference?

I believe it's wrong for the government to be involved in marriage, but AS LONG AS IT IS, there needs to be fairness. This is not a difficult concept.

Libertarians believe that it's necessary to forgo entitlements in order to shrink the state. Statists believe in expanding entitlements so that everything is fair.

Have you been listening to too much Jack Layton?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Then find a newer one which contradicts it.

I don't know if you know this, but the Canadian elected representatives who voted to legalize it in Canada. There's not been any polls since because it's here and it's not going anywhere.

Yes, and where does it say that all heterosexual couples are entitled to marriage? I don't see that at all.

Again, this reached my tolerance threshold of stupidity and resulted in the rest of your post being deleted without being read. If you wish to make an argument, make it less stupid.

[Ben Kenobi]

IOW, it's too hard, so I won't do it. Thanks Asher.

Again, this reached my tolerance threshold of stupidity and resulted in the rest of your post being deleted without being read. If you wish to make an argument, make it less stupid.

Most of those confused souls are in favour of common law provisions only.

To lump them in with the marriage folks is a distortion.

[Asher]

You know my opinion of you. This thread epitomizes it. That's all I'm going to say.

[notyoueither]

Most of the rest of us don't give a **** what it's called, Ben.

If you don't want them calling themselves 'married', you should take it up with the United Church.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why do you think I'm a Catholic, TYVM. I left the Anglicans quite some time ago.

[notyoueither]

You think Catholics across the land are up in arms against gay marriage?

Ever glanced at opinion in Quebec?

[Ben Kenobi]

You think Catholics across the land are up in arms against gay marriage?

Ever glanced at opinion in Quebec?

Church thankfully isn't a democracy.

[notyoueither]

Yes, but Canada is.

And there are all sorts of religious people who disagree with you.

Who's to sort out which is which?

I sort of think you are tilting at windmills.

[Asher]

Debate summary: The 4 opposition leaders blamed Harper for the world's economic woes. None of them could say what they would do to "fix" the economy. But Dion tried when he unveiled a "30 day, 5 point plan", where each point constituted some kind of meeting with economists.

I'm not sure promising to meet with economists is the best thing to do when the guy you're running against is an economist himself?

[notyoueither]

There's desperation in the opposition voices.