I think the childless should be taxed

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by rmsharpe

So you want fewer people but don't support a natural way of attaining that goal.

Human society is not natural, except for maybe primative society.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by GePap
The solution for Europe and Japan is much simpler than new taxes:

IMMIGRATION.

That is why the US continues to grow as it does. Let people from the third world move to Europe and once there they would have more kids, and the populations of European states grow, while at the same time not increasing the overall human population.

Agreed, but it already does overall grow in Europe as well, and mainly because of immigration going on. Some countries also have quite good birth rates. There are some dramatic cases, like Italy or Russia, but overall I disagree with a general premise of Europe dieing out.

I also would disagree if the debate here goes as if the immigration we are facing is all about evil radical mooslims that want to abolish European lifestyle, as stated by that Steyn guy in the other thread. There are certainly probs, but also a lot of fear-mongering. At the moment I don't see how we are overrun by Islamist hordes. I simply don't see how for example the less-than-2-millions Turks in Hermania lead to an Islamization of the ca. 80 million Krauts (well German nationals are ca. 75 millions of them, the rest are other immigrants of various descent, culture, religion, whatever) in any reasonable time frame. Other countries might have some other numbers, but even if muslims make a big part of immigration to Europe, it's not that they form a monolithic "Islamist" block, and at the end the key issue will be integration, and that's not primarily a demographic problem, but a political and social one.

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Human society is not natural, except for maybe primative society.

I guess that means you'll be getting rid of your computer, Dr. Kaczynski...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
I'm saying that if the West is fails to make the Green Social Democracy or if worse it collapses all vast resources we have gained through the looting and pillaging of this planet and the enslavement of half of the world will be lost without ever being used for good.

Social democracy is nothing but capitalism. Your social benefits are built on the backs of the Third World.

As a good commie you should know that there was a reason why Marx belived Western Europe is the best place for communism to develop. You need a technological & material base to have any sort of lofty notion of "equality" or even "liberty" for that matter. The democracy of today was not possible in 500 BC.

That base will still exist while the darkies grow in percentage of population in Europe. Marx certainly didn't believe that European culture made it the best place for capitalism, but because that's where industrialism was.

If Europe doesn't overcome this problem, chances of convincing other countries to follow our path will be slim. And then I can guarantee you that even if Europes population is halved it will not stop the global collapse caused by 3 billion people trying to develop the way originally we did rather than opt for sustainable development.

At what point do we stop growing? When the environment collapses and billions starve? Yeah, let's increase the chances of a global civilization collapse so old white folks in Europe don't have to look at the darkies moving in.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by rmsharpe

I guess that means you'll be getting rid of your computer, Dr. Kaczynski...

Can you be stupider? I'll bet you can.

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Can you be stupider? I'll bet you can.

Let's try to keep in mind that you are the one that thinks doctors and scientists should be paid the same as carnival ride operators.

[chequita guevara]

Oh really? Can you quote me on that?

[snoopy369]

Let's keep this on topic, and stop with the personal crap please...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by rmsharpe

I guess that means you'll be getting rid of your computer, Dr. Kaczynski...

Wrong again. I'm not a luddite.

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Oh really? Can you quote me on that?

You'd be a mediocre communist if you didn't believe it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, I give up then. You just can't understand how population growth is bad for living standards.

Inverted population pyramids just don't work, as most of Europe will find out.

France should be fine though.

[Ben Kenobi]

The solution for Europe and Japan is much simpler than new taxes:

IMMIGRATION.

That is why the US continues to grow as it does. Let people from the third world move to Europe and once there they would have more kids, and the populations of European states grow, while at the same time not increasing the overall human population.

Europe needs 11 million immigrants every year to sustain their population.

The current immigration rates would need to be quadrupled, and it would be double the rates that we have here in Canada, which has the highest per capita immigration rate just to keep in place.

Right now, Italy, Germany, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, and most of Eastern Europe are actually net losers of population, even after accounting for immigration. Sweden, Spain, and Portugal are approaching that point.

France is the only one including immigration is stable for the long term.

Are the governments of Europe willing to quadruple their immigration rates? I honestly don't see it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Not contributing? Horse****. People without kids pay higher taxes than breeders. They contribute more to the state than breeders do, without contributing to the world's excess population.

I don't have any kids, and I should be taxed higher to pay for my benefits.

The folks who do have kids should pay less because their kids are the ones who are going to be looking after me when I am old and gray.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Inverted population pyramids just don't work, as most of Europe will find out.

Why not?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Are the governments of Europe willing to quadruple their immigration rates? I honestly don't see it.

Why would we need that when the EU had already overall pop gains (to a big part because of immigration) by 2005?