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I think the childless should be taxed

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kidicious

    Like when they need shoes that cost $60, or when they start college?

    I can tell you don't have children.
    Over here starting & finishing collegeis not expensive, I know since I'm in college. This will change soon as people will need to start paying for higher education. This is a direct result of our social state being weaker and weaker compared to the robust American system of neoliberal economics.


    Also 60$ (45€ I think) is cheap for a shoes, is there a sale somewhere?

    In any case the kids pay good money to put you in a home when you are old and useless instead of letting you die in the summer heat. I can at least play civ in a home.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Heraclitus
      Investing into kids is a smart decision economicaly as well as ethically.
      Not necessarily. Consider the strain on resources and the environment. Consider the overcrowding of cities.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by Kidicious


        Not necessarily. Consider the strain on resources and the environment. Consider the overcrowding of cities.

        Consider the prospects of a child being born in Afica and one being born in Europe- which wil contribute more to solving the worlds environmental problems? Which is more likely to advocate green or prodemocratic changes?


        Just explain why it would be bad for Europeans to have 2 or 3 kids (not necessarily biological, adopted are equal in my eyes).
        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

        Comment

        • #34
          Originally posted by Heraclitus
          Over here starting & finishing collegeis not expensive, I know since I'm in college. This will change soon as people will need to start paying for higher education. This is a direct result of our social state being weaker and weaker compared to the robust American system of neoliberal economics.
          You seem to think that if something isn't expensive to and individual that it doesn't strain the resources of a society. Wrong. Sending a kid to college takes up resources that a society can use to take care of it's elderly.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

          Comment

          • #35
            Originally posted by Kidicious


            You seem to think that if something isn't expensive to and individual that it doesn't strain the resources of a society. Wrong. Sending a kid to college takes up resources that a society can use to take care of it's elderly.


            I never thought I would argue with a leftist that educating people is a good thing.





            Do I need to spell this out to you? A large elderly population being supported by the working class leads to resentment and hatred towards the elderly.


            Why do you think traditional societies respect the elderly? Because there are so few of them! A small developed European nation with 2.1 kids per capita is the most experimentaly friendly advanced technological society known to man! It is the most stable least warlike most democratic society humans have managed to come up with!


            I'm not advocating population growth I'm advocating making enough children to allow us to assimilate immigrants to keep the population at roughly the same level!
            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by Heraclitus



              Consider the prospects of a child being born in Afica and one being born in Europe- which wil contribute more to solving the worlds environmental problems? Which is more likely to advocate green or prodemocratic changes?


              Just explain why it would be bad for Europeans to have 2 or 3 kids (not necessarily biological, adopted are equal in my eyes).
              Judging by you, propably the kid in Africa, because he will atleast understand that he won't use nearly as much resources and energy as a kid in EU.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by Heraclitus




                I never thought I would argue with a leftist that educating people is a good thing.


                I'm not arguing against educating existing people.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by Kidicious


                  Judging by you, propably the kid in Africa, because he will atleast understand that he won't use nearly as much resources and energy as a kid in EU.


                  The kid will need less resources but will end up having 12 kids, 7 of which will live and live in squalor for the rest of his life as he does. His chances at a good life will be dim, let alone him making any contribution to solving the global problems that force him to live as he does. He won't know or care about of the global ecological crisis and will probably spend his days choping down rain forest so he can farm the land and feed his starving malnourished kids.


                  The kid in Europe will have 1,5 kids will be college educated and may be instrumental in developing a new environmentally friendly technology.

                  Originally posted by Kidicious


                  Judging by you


                  I'm a rabid environmentalist who takes every opportunity to annoy people he knows on what should be done, votes green, convinced several people to invest into a solar power plant and doesn't own or use a car.


                  You by simply being American and being in your 40's have wasted way more resources that I have, by your environmental standards you should preform hare hare chrisna.


                  The only difference between me and a treehugging hippy is that I realize that there are no perfect solutions and that me living in a commune will not help the environment in the grand scheme of things.
                  Last edited by Heraclitus; August 26, 2008, 09:49.
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    We are being taxed extra already. Here we have government paid child welfare cheques going out to every single child or young person under the age of 18. Their parents receive this cash handout every quarter, irrespective of their income.

                    This year the annual amounts are DKK 13,892 (~ $2,800) for children aged 0-2 years, DKK 12,552 (~ $2,500) ages 3-6 and DKK 9,876 (~ $2,000) ages 7-17.

                    That's a lot of money, 13.775 billion kroner, or roughly $2.8 billion, for the year 2008 going from taxpayers to families with kids, no questions asked, we don't care how much you make, here, go on take the money and have a good time.

                    This program alone costs the average taxpayer, young or old, kids or no kids, about $700 each year. Just like that. Then of course there are myriads of other government paid programs for families with children, this is just the most glaring example of how childless people are already being disproportionately made to foot the bill.

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Heraclitus
                      The kid will need less resources but will end up having 12 kids, 7 of which will live and live in squalor for the rest of his life as he does. His chances at a good life will be dim, let alone him making any contribution to solving the global problems that force him to live as he does. He won't know or care about of the global ecological crisis and will probably spend his days choping down rain forest so he can farm the land and feed his starving malnourished kids.


                      The kid in Europe will have 1,5 kids will be college educated and may be instrumental in developing a new environmentally friendly technology.
                      Ah, but you want Europeans to have more kids which will increase the amount of energy and resources that the entire society uses. You're saying that having more kids is worse for the earth!

                      On your second point, a stance on environmental policy is a societal one. I don't see how a society with more children per capita is going to be more ecofriendly. I don't see your logic.



                      I'm a rabid environmentalist who takes every opportunity to annoy people he knows on what should be done, votes green, convinced several people to invest into a solar power plant and doesn't own or use a car.


                      You by simply being American and being in your 40's have wasted way more resources that I have, by your environmental standards you should preform hare hare chrisna.


                      The only difference between me and a treehugging hippy is that I realize that there are no perfect solutions and that me living in a commune will not help the environment in the grand scheme of things.
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Re: I think the childless should be taxed

                        Originally posted by Heraclitus
                        @USAians: The US is not a welfare state
                        /me chuckles
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Re: I think the childless should be taxed

                          Originally posted by Heraclitus
                          That simple. It will restore the competitiveness of working moms and dads in the labor market and might just be enough to make a dent in Europe's slow slide into demographic doom.

                          I think it should start at age 27 and end at retirement.

                          Plus its fair, since people who don't have kids are burdening society by benefiting from the welfare state while not contributing to its continued existance.

                          @USAians: The US is not a welfare state and so such a tax would probably be unfair unless it was very small.
                          I agree with your proposal. It costs a lot to raise a kid, and it is crucial for society. Those who aren't doing their part should be taxed!

                          Note that many places in europe already reward you for having kids. I think some area in Italy was giving 10k$ a few years ago.

                          JM
                          Jon Miller-
                          I AM.CANADIAN
                          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                          • #43
                            It costs a lot to raise a kid.. It's a choice you make!.

                            Excepting the very needy here, why should other people have to pay because you decided to have kids?

                            If I decided to get a horse, would you be paying for that too? It costs a lot to keep a horse..

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Re: Re: I think the childless should be taxed

                              Originally posted by Jon Miller


                              I agree with your proposal. It costs a lot to raise a kid, and it is crucial for society. Those who aren't doing their part should be taxed!
                              The question is whether or not it's beneficial to have more children in an already overcrowded panet.
                              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Kidicious
                                The question is whether or not it's beneficial to have more children in an already overcrowded panet.
                                I think the question is why some people think there won't be any kids unless we pay people to have them. It's worked fine without government subsidies for millions of years. I think by now we can say that childbirth is here to stay.

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