I think the childless should be taxed

[Lancer]

Well that's good.

[chequita guevara]

We cannot continue to expand our population. At some point, the environment will give. Better to slow down now then have population control forced upon us by mass die offs.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Kidicious

True, but it's not bad for the people of Europe who will enjoy smaller population levels in future.

If this continue there won't be "a people of Europe" at least not the kind of Europeans that have lived here for the past few millenia.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Kidicious


By growing your populations! WTF???!!! What kind of example is that!

You are being intentionally dense! Europe's population is shrinking! We are unable to assimilate our immigrant labor! We are abandoning our multiculturalism because we now fear not embrace other cultures. We are stripping our social programs because we can't afford them!

This is good PR for social green democracy how?!?

Other societies look at this and shudder! Muslim clergy (even Slovenian Muslims who come from European Bosnia) routinely proclaim the falling size of our population is due to Western idolatry of the environment and how we let our women do anything they want!


People are narrow minded bigots unless they see that a system is truly better they will never sing on to it.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
The non-industrial nations have to industrialize, to improve their quality of life. If we are around to help them, they might agree to do so in an eco-freindly way. If we aren't (because we are spending all our production keeping up our old people), than they will industrialize the way we did, by raping the planet.

QFT


Damn Jon, its times like these when only natural scientist who should in theory know nothing on how to manage a society make sense that I start doubting Democracy and just want a good Technocracy.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
We already make food cheaper... which might be a bit of a bad thing. And we already make medicine more available as well.

What we don't do, and we should, is subsidize power/etc. China is building coal plants because they are cheap, if we subsidized nuclear than maybe they would build nuclear? And than the air wouldn't become so horrible?

JM

Ok that is it! Jon Miller 2012!

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Kidicious


That's ridiculous. We don't help them by using up energy and producing more goods. It hasn't been that way in the past. It's not that way now, and it won't be that way in the future. Nations develop when they create trade surpluses, and inputs are cheap.

Those cheap goods are saving millions of lives! That "harmful" productivity drives scientific progress!

What kind of a communist are you! Its called scientific socialism for a reason. We can not solve the challenges of today with the social networks and production patterns of yesterday.

"that whosoever could make two ears of corn or two blades of grass to grow upon a spot of ground where only one grew before, would deserve better of mankind, and do more essential service to his country, than the whole race of politicians put together."

What happened to the enlightenment! What has happened to humanism!


If people no longer believe this then the West, that brought us the bill of rights, the universal declaration of human rights, the scientific method, then the West I and many in around the world wish to be a part of is truly dead.

[rmsharpe]

Re: Re: I think the childless should be taxed

Originally posted by Kidicious


There's nothing wrong with lower populations, just that it's not compatable with capitalism.

You mean socialism; after all, who is going to pay for all the welfare benefits when the population rate slows? You're just going to keep piling them onto the few remaining productive people, and even they won't work for free.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
We cannot continue to expand our population. At some point, the environment will give. Better to slow down now then have population control forced upon us by mass die offs.

I'm saying that if the West is fails to make the Green Social Democracy or if worse it collapses all vast resources we have gained through the looting and pillaging of this planet and the enslavement of half of the world will be lost without ever being used for good.

As a good commie you should know that there was a reason why Marx belived Western Europe is the best place for communism to develop. You need a technological & material base to have any sort of lofty notion of "equality" or even "liberty" for that matter. The democracy of today was not possible in 500 BC.


If Europe doesn't overcome this problem, chances of convincing other countries to follow our path will be slim. And then I can guarantee you that even if Europes population is halved it will not stop the global collapse caused by 3 billion people trying to develop the way originally we did rather than opt for sustainable development.

[Heraclitus]

Re: Re: Re: I think the childless should be taxed

Originally posted by rmsharpe

You mean socialism; after all, who is going to pay for all the welfare benefits when the population rate slows? You're just going to keep piling them onto the few remaining productive people, and even they won't work for free.

That's what I've been trying to tell him all along.


Capitalism is adaptive, a shrinking European population is something it can survive quite well. All we Euros need to do is put an end to all our welfare programs and the demographic crisis isn't a problem anymore. Well if we're ok with old people dying by the tens of thousands. But maybe we could make a profit from those too?

Mhhhhmm Soylent green. Would help with overpopulation too!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Heraclitus





If this continue there won't be "a people of Europe" at least not the kind of Europeans that have lived here for the past few millenia.

Be serious.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Kidicious




Be serious.

I am


Thousands of European atheists are embracing Islam. Or so youtube tells me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Heraclitus




You are being intentionally dense! Europe's population is shrinking! We are unable to assimilate our immigrant labor! We are abandoning our multiculturalism because we now fear not embrace other cultures. We are stripping our social programs because we can't afford them!

This is good PR for social green democracy how?!?

Other societies look at this and shudder! Muslim clergy (even Slovenian Muslims who come from European Bosnia) routinely proclaim the falling size of our population is due to Western idolatry of the environment and how we let our women do anything they want!


People are narrow minded bigots unless they see that a system is truly better they will never sing on to it.

Ok chicken little.

Look, this is just all motivated by nationalism. There are too many people in the world, and it's bad for the environment, and living standards. That's the simple truth.

[rmsharpe]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Ok chicken little.

Look, this is just all motivated by nationalism. There are too many people in the world, and it's bad for the environment, and living standards. That's the simple truth.

So you believe in social darwinism?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Look, this is just all motivated by nationalism. There are too many people in the world, and it's bad for the environment, and living standards. That's the simple truth.

Yes and we Euros have been such nationalist since WW2 compared to all the nice and happy places in the world like China and Iran?




Uh, hello I come from a country with just 2 million people which is more than 50% forest. I couldn't be nationalist even if I wanted to. Heck, sometimes its hard being patriotic.