Obama Suggests Jesus Christ Not the Only Way to Heaven

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi




The protestant in this thread is arguing sola fidae vs sola gratia.

How does one explain the thief on the cross that was given Grace and was in Heaven that day, he did not have a chance to do works save accepting the Lord in His Heart..................

[Ben Kenobi]

It's our book more then yours Gramps.

We wrote it for you.

I'm not sure how you can say that I'm denying that scripture is authoritative, as the Word of God.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


Your denouncing the Infallible Word of God, The Bible

You do know that is esentially Muslim concept right? The writers of the Bible are said to have been divinely inspired. It was not dictated by God, that is what Allah is said to have done to the prophet Mohamed. So to take the bible literaly is to study it in a manner similar to the way Muslims study the Quaran.



Also he never said he rejected the Bible, it would be ironic if he did, since the Chatolics-Orthodoxs wrote the Bible so to speak.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by MarkG
but if i convert back to christianity, jesus christ will protect me from my muslim ex-brothers who will try to kill me, right?

In eternal Life sense, no proof of Christ ptotecting anyone from physical harm.....

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll

In eternal Life sense, no proof of Christ ptotecting anyone from physical harm.....

He would be a martyr, perhaps even a saint in time.

[Ben Kenobi]

How does one explain the thief on the cross that was given Grace and was in Heaven that day, he did not have a chance to do works save accepting the Lord in His Heart..................

His works were in defending Christ to the rest of the mob. They were the expression of the faith in his heart. It is after he proclaims Christ as the Lord, that Christ promises him that today he will be in Paradise.

I agree that faith is necessary, but we are saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ. For it is through his grace we are saved, and not through faith alone. Christ is the one, not ourselves, who decided whether or not we are saved. It's not our works alone, or our faith alone, but God's grace alone.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
He would be a martyr, perhaps even a saint in time.

so i would be allowed to heaven
which means that switching back and forth is possible

[snoopy369]

So what Ben and Gramps have shown in this thread:

Paul was a **** brilliant politician who wrote what needed to be written to convert folks to Christianity and set the church up for great things. He was not, however, directly inspired, nor was he in any way consistent.

The letter to the Romans was more focused on the Gentiles, while Ephesus was iirc somewhat later and focused on Christians... hence two different letters

[Heraclitus]

Buddha was pretty smart too, I mean look at the internet its full of Bhuddists high on themselves.

[Jon Miller]

Thinking that nonChristians are children of God does not mean that Jesus isn't the only way to heaven.

Jesus can save people who don't beleive in Him, or even know of His existence.

I haven't read the details of what he says... but the bolded part doesn't seem wrong to most parts of Christianity.

As far as I know, only some old style catholics or remnant style protestants would disagree if they thought about it. Many might not think about it, however.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Oh, and while Paul wasn't God (unlike Jesus) and could and did make mistakes, he was inspired and a great apostle of Christs. Additionally, the vast majority of Christianity considers Pauls words inspired. So much so that 99% of practicing and nonpracticing Christians would be considered Paulian Christians and when speaking about Christianity, most people assume you are refering to Paulian Christianity.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

The letter to the Romans was more focused on the Gentiles, while Ephesus was iirc somewhat later and focused on Christians... hence two different letters

They are letters to different churches. Different needs. One church in Rome, one in Ephesus.

All I can say if you think that Romans is focussed more on Gentiles is to read the books and decide for yourself.

I don't think Paul contradicts himself, what Gramps says reinforces what I'm saying.

[Dr Strangelove]

The letters to the Romans were largely intended to repair a rent in the Roman congregation between those who were previously Jews and those who were previously gentiles. Specifically Paul argues with the formerly Jewish portion of the congregation that they have no reason to reject the former gentiles.

[Dr Strangelove]

But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.

I think it could easily be argued from scripture that Jesus considered everyone a child of God.

"[S]he was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said, according to the Times. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."

Seriously what do you expect him to say about his mother? Would you be moved to vote for a guy who proclaimed "I'm ashamed to say my ma, bless her heart, was a heathren 'cause she didn't believe in Jesus, I know she's frying in the fires of hell right now."

[LotC]

Originally posted by MarkG
this Christ guy sounds good

Sure, if you call mind reading zombies good.