Primary Thread 3: Race to Denver

[Imran Siddiqui]

Mass messianism is by definition not a cult of personality, because in a cult of personality the image of the leader as the single savior is emphasized.

Messianism necessarily implies one leader, a single savior (isn't that what the Messiah IS?). I'm reading Klein's article to say that the masses are buying into Obama's messianism, that he will lead them to the promised land. You know, we are the ones we've been waiting for and Obama will show us the way.

Besides, isn't that whole thing "we are the ones we are waiting for" stuff kind of typical of the scary cults (as opposed to political cults or mainstream religions) that are out there?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


I don't think it will be the Clintons' Wrongspeak that gets them barred from the VP.

Remember when Papa Bush pointed out that Reagan's plan to balance the budget by cutting taxes was Voodoo Economics? Papa Bush was selected as VP because he'd bring moderates to the voting booth. But the Clintons can bring few additional voters to Obama.

They will be barred because they are emblamatic of the Old School of Washington that Obama is running against.

I don't think that compares to calling Obama the candidate for Black America.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Clinton's not going to take veep; she has too much ego. She'll cut a deal, possibly for Senate Majority Leader (if enough people will turn on Reid -- and they should).

Finding a veep for Obama will be an interessting challenge, though, since he needs someone with a reassuring amount of experience who nevertheless doesn't undermine his theme of hopep, change, new start, etc.

[Krill]

[q=Rufus]Clinton's not going to take veep; she has too much ego. She'll cut a deal, possibly for Senate Majority Leader (if enough people will turn on Reid -- and they should).[/q]

I think that laymen would hate her more than Reid if she did ttha though...

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Messianism necessarily implies one leader, a single savior (isn't that what the Messiah IS?). I'm reading Klein's article to say that the masses are buying into Obama's messianism, that he will lead them to the promised land. You know, we are the ones we've been waiting for and Obama will show us the way.

I didn't read it that way. Mass messianism would seem to be about the self-deliverance of the masses.

Besides, isn't that whole thing "we are the ones we are waiting for" stuff kind of typical of the scary cults (as opposed to political cults or mainstream religions) that are out there?

What? Why? It's just like Ghandi saying "be the change you wish to see in the world." It's a message of self-empowerment - don't wait for someone to help you, stand up and help yourselves. That doesn't seem scary to me at all.

The funny thing is that right after that speech, I remember Chris Matthews saying he liked it but noting that it wasn't even his line - I think he credited a permutation of it to Caroline Kennedy not long before.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Krill
[q=Rufus]Clinton's not going to take veep; she has too much ego. She'll cut a deal, possibly for Senate Majority Leader (if enough people will turn on Reid -- and they should).[/q]

I think that laymen would hate her more than Reid if she did ttha though...

I don't see why. It's probably the 2nd most powerful job in government after the president, and she'd be very good at it; plus its effectively a job for life (NY isn't going to throw her out of office when she weilds that much power on its behalf). If she's not getting the nomination, this would be the best face-saving deal.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I don't think Clinton adds any votes to an Obama ticket, all her supporters are dyed int he wool Dems and would never think of supporting McCain. She probably scares off more people then she brings in.

I still think Bill Richardson is going to get it, He solidifies the Hispanic vote for Obama and has gravitas on foreign policy and "handling papers" an admitted Obama weakness.

No one is going to want to be Hills VP, we all know she is an obsessive micro-manager and will Bill as here defacto-VP the official VP will be hopelessly side-lined. The only chance they won't be ignored is if she chose one of her life-long loyalists like the people who have managed her inept and poisonous campaign. Get ready for a Cheny of the left if that happens.

[Bosh]

Sheesh, I don't see what's very cult-like at all about Obama using pretty standard run of the mill community organizing tactics in electoral politics.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

Obama knows this stuff, he did it for years and it's his model for organizing his Presidential campaign. And it seems pretty clear that its working damn well so far...

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
No one is going to want to be Hills VP, we all know she is an obsessive micro-manager and will Bill as here defacto-VP the official VP will be hopelessly side-lined. The only chance they won't be ignored is if she chose one of her life-long loyalists....

I've heard the name of Haig kicked around.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


I've heard the name of Haig kicked around.

Do you mean Clark? If not, who's Haig?

[Ben Kenobi]

That's right. Attorneys have an ethics portion on the bar exam. --Stop laughing!

Is it multiple choice?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Do you mean Clark? If not, who's Haig?*

Dammit, I knew Haig was wrong when I wrote it. Why didn't I fact check?! Why, why, why?!

Yes, Clark. Wesley Clark. That guy. shhheeesh.





_________________________
* Nixon's Chief of Staff.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Is it multiple choice?

It's probably true false and you only need 50% to pass.

[Impaler[WrG]]

The only reasons Clark would take a Hill VP slot are 1) his is a Bill/Hill loyalist or 2) he has presidential ambitions and needs something to vault him to the national level.

Wesley Clark seems to have a solid lock on the "Respected Retired General who name gets batted around every 4 years as a possible VP for the Democrats" why would he blow a sweet job like that by ACTUALLY joining a ticket???

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
The only reasons Clark would take a Hill VP slot are 1) his is a Bill/Hill loyalist or 2) he has presidential ambitions and needs something to vault him to the national level.

Wesley Clark seems to have a solid lock on the "Respected Retired General who name gets batted around every 4 years as a possible VP for the Democrats" why would he blow a sweet job like that by ACTUALLY joining a ticket???

Because there's very little distinction between being retired and being vice president? (except there are more perks to being veep)