Nicolai, JM and such, I have an honest question.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

I only pester people about it who pester me with their religion. And they deserve saving.

you seem to think that if i simply mention something about Judaism or Jews (even if its, you know, atheist Jews) its somehow pestering you with my religion.

[Elok]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
you seem to think that if i simply mention something about Judaism or Jews (even if its, you know, atheist Jews) its somehow pestering you with my religion.

No, it's more pestering him with your culture. Less annoying, but still...well, you know where I stand on that.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Religious people: how do you deal with the fact that so many atheists are utterly clueless about religion?

Forgiveness, same as God forgives all sinners saved by Grace

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Well, he names Nikolai who is Orthodox like Elok, and JM who is and Adventist, so that was just the second part of his post.

I'm trying to think of how to explain it to spec.

We used to all be one church, the Orthodox say it was them and the Catholics say it was them. Catholics and Orthodox split just after the first milennium. Then all the different protestant churches split around the half point of the second millenium BC.

That's why we end up now with almost a different church for everyone's taste. For the most part they have things that all agree upon, but there are always some doctrinal differences between each church. Some are minor, while others are very major with a long history.

Your question is who is the real church, is a good one, would say it's the Catholic church, simply because of their history.

Nikolai is Orthodox?

[Ben Kenobi]

Is he the one from Poland?

I must have got him mixed up with someone else.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Is he the one from Poland?

No, he's from Norway.

Heresson

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeah Heresson is Catholic.

I'm pretty sure Nikolai is orthodox.

[Straybow]

I thought Nikolai is Lutheran.

[Emetri]

Nicolai, JM and such, I have an honest question.

One of the two aside, I'd be more interested in knowing how it's possible to be both a proclaimed Marxist and a devout Christian.

[Kuciwalker]

It's not. Jeses hated communists.

[Jon Miller]

It is, the early Christian's were very socialist. I will agree that you have to modify Marx to be a Marxist and a Christian. However, I think that it is very obvious that you have to modify Marx to apply his philosophy to modern society period.

Jon Miller

[Nikolai]

Re: Nicolai, JM and such, I have an honest question.

Lots of hard questions there. I'll answer as good as I can, and please ask further if I make myself unclear.

Originally posted by Spec
How do you guys feel about the whole religion thing knowing you guys are religious, and knowing at the same time that religion does not accept gays, premarital sex and such.

Not accepting gays is racism imo. How can you apply to this? Not meaning that you agree with it or think the same, but you ARE in the same group of people.

I'm not sure if I understood the first part of the question. But I have no problem with Christianity promoting sex first after the marriage. I think God knows what is best for us. Not that it nessessarily is easy, but quite a few problems in the world would cease if we humans did what God told us. But, as we all know, the world is not perfect. I believe that is because if sin, because that's what God tells me in the Bible. This is faith, not logic, so while I can defend my standpoint to a degree, there is a gap between faith and human understanding that cannot be filled by us. That's the frustrating part, faith cannot be understood completely from the outside.

As for gays, well, I think that is a hard question. One of the problems with that is that all too many Christians forget how Jesus met people that was frowned upon by the religious and society as a whole. He spent time with them, he cared for them, he loved them. He accepted them as those valuable individuals they were, loved by God. He did not, however, accept the sin in their lives.

The Bible tell us of many kinds of sins; lies, adultery, love of money before people, murder. And homosexuality. Unfortunately I'd almost say. It's hard for me to understand how it can be a sin, but God's own word tells me it's so. And then I am ready to accept that. But does that make me obliged to hate gays? To frown upon them? No, God's word tells me to care for all people, gays just as much as anyone else. It tells me all sins are unacceptable to God, he is holy and cannot tolerate it.

Therefore, all humans are under God's wrath. Fortunately, Jesus came to the world to attone for our sins and make it possible for all of us to become God's children, no matter what we have done. And what we will come to do, since we are still imperfect human beings.

So gays are just as much loved and can be saved by Jesus' blood just as much as anyone else. Homosexuality is still a sin, but as all other sins, we can be cleansed by Jesus every day if we only believe in him.

When that is said, I don't think homosexuals should be priests, since there are higher demands for a priest than a normal Christian, but they are as welcome as any other person to be God's children and be Christians. I know a few gay Christians, and they are as much my brothers and sisters in the faith as anyone. Jesus' love can save any who wants it!

And if you say they are wrong, then what IS christianity according to you?! But if its according to you, its not christianity...?

How many versions of christianity is there?

Is not accepting gays considered fanatical? So the vatican is fanatical? And the pope is your example?

And if you dont adhere to the whole thing, example, the vaticans view, how can you call your self christian? Isn't that like being a wanna be christian? Or a half-ass one?

Christianity is the belief in Jesus as God's son, that he came to the world to save us all by dying and rise again. You are a Christian if you accept this and accept Jesus as your saviour. You don't have to be 100% sure of it, any belief without doubt is dangerous, yes, even unhealthy. That's what the bottomline is in Christianity, Jesus as the world's saviour.. Anything beyond that is human intepretation of God's will, and my belief is that all "Christianities" are imperfect intepretationsu of God's will. Not one is completely right, but as long as the denomination accept what the Bible tells us about Jesus, it's of no importance. I would say it this easy: If you have the tiniest belief in this core of the Christian faith, no matter how unsure and unworthy you might think of yourself, you are a Christian. There's no half-Christian or wannabe Christian, only Christian or not Christian. God doesn't demand anything other than that we accept his offer of redemption, a gift to imperfect humans who see that they are not perfect.

Honest question.

Spec.

And taken as such.

[Nikolai]

Eh, but Ben: Orthodox? You disappoint me with your ignorance. Hehe, no I'm a Protestant as I've always been.

[Ben Kenobi]

With a nick like Nikolai, you'll have to forgive me for the error.

I was curious why Spec asked you and JM about the pope, and not me or Heresson.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Heresson