Nicolai, JM and such, I have an honest question.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Religious people: how do you deal with the fact that so many atheists are utterly clueless about religion?

Religion is about endless depths of fantasy. It is a waste of time to learn more about them in detail, just as it is a waste of time to learn more about the lives of LARP people.

[Japher]

True, but I believe the question was what does the Catholic church teach?

That was only a part of the question. I think Spec confuses Catholics for being all Christians when it is not.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
Religion is about endless depths of fantasy. It is a waste of time to learn more about them in detail, just as it is a waste of time to learn more about the lives of LARP people.

I should have added the implied "and waste their time pestering you about it?"

[Ben Kenobi]

That was only a part of the question. I think Spec confuses Catholics for being all Christians when it is not.

Well, he names Nikolai who is Orthodox like Elok, and JM who is and Adventist, so that was just the second part of his post.

I'm trying to think of how to explain it to spec.

We used to all be one church, the Orthodox say it was them and the Catholics say it was them. Catholics and Orthodox split just after the first milennium. Then all the different protestant churches split around the half point of the second millenium BC.

That's why we end up now with almost a different church for everyone's taste. For the most part they have things that all agree upon, but there are always some doctrinal differences between each church. Some are minor, while others are very major with a long history.

Your question is who is the real church, is a good one, would say it's the Catholic church, simply because of their history.

[Japher]

The Ladder at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is a great illustration of what is really wrong with Christianity today.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I should have added the implied "and waste their time pestering you about it?"

I only pester people about it who pester me with their religion. And they deserve saving.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Your question is who is the real church, is a good one, would say it's the Catholic church, simply because of their history.

Visit Rome sometime, look at the stuff from the very early church. Icons abound. Everything that makes the RCC what it is today was invented a good deal later, as an innovation. All the doctrinal differences result from Catholicism's later inventions as well, mostly medieval or even later. The one thing you have going for you is the dubious authority of the Pope--and Peter was Bishop of Antioch before he was Bishop of Rome.

[Ben Kenobi]

Visit Rome sometime, look at the stuff from the very early church. Icons abound. Everything that makes the RCC what it is today was invented a good deal later, as an innovation. All the doctrinal differences result from Catholicism's later inventions as well, mostly medieval or even later. The one thing you have going for you is the dubious authority of the Pope--and Peter was Bishop of Antioch before he was Bishop of Rome.

Oh I don't doubt that you folks have much to offer especially with iconography.

The only problem is which Orthodox church. The whole idea of 'national churches' is no different from the model of the Anglican church.

[Jon Miller]

I thought the Church of Antioch are Copts, not Orthodox (the third and least major of the three major early Christianities).

Christianity has many interpretations, and many are not clear to an independent observer. It is only through prayer and study that we can determine God's will for us.

I think that it is a shame and disrespectful to God that so many Christian's single out homosexuality as somehow the greatest sin or something. And push homosexuals away from religion. I encourage everone to be Christians, as we all need God, and homosexual Christians should pray to God for guidance in that aspect of their lives as we should pray to God for guidance in all aspects of our lives. I do think that inherent homosexuality is the result of living in a sinful world.

I would also like to agree with Elok and Japher in that we all sin; those of us who are straight as much as those who are homosexual. We really do all need God's continual mercy, love, and forgiveness.

peace,
Jon Miller

[Wezil]

Leave me out of it.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The only problem is which Orthodox church. The whole idea of 'national churches' is no different from the model of the Anglican church.

Er, we're pretty much all in communion, with the exception of ROCOR and other odd schismatics. We're all one church, we just don't have despots like the Pope. Synods are more our style.

...and I currently attend an Antiochian Orthodox Church, JM. Tho' we have provisional autonomy from the official Synod of Antioch, which is one of the five ancient sees of the church along with Jerusalem, Constantinople, Alexandria, and Rome.

[Ben Kenobi]

Er, we're pretty much all in communion, with the exception of ROCOR and other odd schismatics. We're all one church, we just don't have despots like the Pope. Synods are more our style.

It's a different model of the church. I happen to like the central authority of the pope, hence why I converted from the Mennonite church to Catholicism rather then to Orthodoxy.

...and I currently attend an Antiochian Orthodox Church, JM. Tho' we have provisional autonomy from the official Synod of Antioch, which is one of the five ancient sees of the church along with Jerusalem, Constantinople, Alexandria, and Rome.

If you ask me, I'd rather see us all in communion again, though under the primacy of the Bishop of Rome.

Truth be told, you are good folks, and hopely the schism can be healed soon.

[Dinner]

How is not acepting gays racism when race is not involved? If you'd said sexism or sexual discrimination then you'd have a case but racism?

[Kuciwalker]

He's channeling Pekka.

[Provost Harrison]

Ewwww...