Why Protestant and Jewish Families Rule the Earth

[Philosophiser]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Bah, if Christianty hadn't been the successful cult in Europe, another one would have been (Islam, I imagine). Religion seems to satisfy a human need. BTW, this is why I think religion will come to bite us Europeans back in the ass in the coming decades

Oh come now Spiffor. You can try to reason it away all you want but it will only confound you more and make you more aware of God's interest in you. Good luck trying to explain away all those fulfilled Old Testament prophecies.

I suggest you repent, confess your sins to Jesus Christ, and trust in Him. And then all your imperfections and sins will be forgiven. But until you do you remain under your own curse.

Christ wants to give you all things if you believe in Him. All things on heaven and on earth, and you will receive them if you trust in Him, who is the LORD of Glory forever and ever. Not only good things in this life, but eternal treasure and an inheritance of gold that will last forever in a world that is more real than this one. But to all who reject Him, fire and darkness forever and ever; because they rejected the LORD who defines all things by His matchless wisdom and ineffable power.

The only thing that will come back to bite Europe will be its rejection of Jesus Christ. It has already replaced Christ with hedonism. Now birth rates are down, the population is dwindling, and Europe will become subjugated under the inferior and false religion of Islam. Those nations that trust in Christ will be exalted, those nations that reject Him will be debased.

[Provost Harrison]

We control our destiny, or chaos does. The fact is, that a significant proportion of the population has come to reject the superstition and nonsense that still permeates our modern society - religion. I see your belief system and your ritual and it reminds me of the most primitive man, that which is derised and laughed at, and incidentally, slaughtered by your predecessors. Your superstition is dying, and good riddance quite frankly...

[Ming]

Check your PM's Philosophiser... the clock is ticking!

[Nostromo]

Repent, Spiffor, repent!

Man, it must be fun to pontificate!

Don't ban him, Ming. Surely, the Lord God will punish 'Poly for this! Beware of 'Poly's seven plagues!

Btw, philosophiser, I resent your handle. It doesn't even fit you. You should have called yourself God Warrior, the rightious one...

[Elok]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Bah, if Christianty hadn't been the successful cult in Europe, another one would have been (Islam, I imagine). Religion seems to satisfy a human need. BTW, this is why I think religion will come to bite us Europeans back in the ass in the coming decades

If you insist on thinking of humanity as a division between atheists and agnostics on the one hand versus, ah, people like Philo on the other, it will. But I get the feeling that my generation of Americans, while still quiet, is looking towards the middle way. As far as the sociological fluff in the newspaper surveys can indicate, we take our religion too seriously to relegate it to a maybe or to be satisfied with this kind of complacent, self-satisfied hypocrisy. I initially thought that was just so much filler, but after talking with others on the subject, I'm not so sure.

Fundamentalism can only drug us so long as we're afraid, ready to blame everything on foreigners and heathens and homosexuals and so on, blah blah blah. Some of us know that these convenient lies won't protect us from reality, and if you'll pardon me for saying so, I imagine that if outspoken atheists weren't so aggressively trying to undermine faith, the rot would have collapsed by itself by now. But atheists can't threaten people into circling the wagons forever. Honestly, they just aren't that threatening. When Americans are willing to search for God in a serious way, there are plenty of branches (of various faiths) ready and waiting. Remember that there was a time when an Islamic theocracy governed the most advanced and civilized empire on the face of the planet.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Philosophiser
But until you do you remain under your own curse.

I'm human, I'm free, and I'm on my own. I assume responsibility for what I do, and I need neither a saviour who makes me irresponsible, nor do I need a religion to give a meaning to my life. Freedom is a curse, but it's the curse I don't want t see lifted

[Provost Harrison]

*applause*

[Straybow]

Fundamentalism can only drug us so long as we're afraid, ready to blame everything on foreigners and heathens and homosexuals and so on, blah blah blah. Some of us know that these convenient lies won't protect us from reality, and if you'll pardon me for saying so, I imagine that if outspoken atheists weren't so aggressively trying to undermine faith, the rot would have collapsed by itself by now. But atheists can't threaten people into circling the wagons forever. Honestly, they just aren't that threatening. When Americans are willing to search for God in a serious way, there are plenty of branches (of various faiths) ready and waiting. Remember that there was a time when an Islamic theocracy governed the most advanced and civilized empire on the face of the planet.

Not so. One fundamental element of Christianity is the "us vs. the world" theme. The world hated Jesus and crucified Him, they will hate and persecute Christians.

And when Islam governed the most advanced and civilized empires they were merely picking up where the Greeks and Persians left off. As they strangled the cultural ties to the infidel past they also killed off the things that made them advanced and civilized.

Now they would rather live in the dirt and shake their fists at the West. Most of the westerners who convert to Islam have the same attitude, and it isn't making things better.

Edit: better quote it

[Provost Harrison]

Why not just drop religion? Are people really too feeble-minded to appreciate this? Just let go of organised religion and see it for what it really is...

[Ben Kenobi]

If you insist on thinking of humanity as a division between atheists and agnostics on the one hand versus, ah, people like Philo on the other, it will. But I get the feeling that my generation of Americans, while still quiet, is looking towards the middle way. As far as the sociological fluff in the newspaper surveys can indicate, we take our religion too seriously to relegate it to a maybe or to be satisfied with this kind of complacent, self-satisfied hypocrisy. I initially thought that was just so much filler, but after talking with others on the subject, I'm not so sure.

What middle way? If you take your faith seriously, then you will be set aside from the world. You are partially right that there is less division between Christians and everyone else then we like to think, but the division still exists.

I imagine that if outspoken atheists weren't so aggressively trying to undermine faith, the rot would have collapsed by itself by now. But atheists can't threaten people into circling the wagons forever. Honestly, they just aren't that threatening. When Americans are willing to search for God in a serious way, there are plenty of branches (of various faiths) ready and waiting. Remember that there was a time when an Islamic theocracy governed the most advanced and civilized empire on the face of the planet.

Indeed. As Spiffor posted, religion fills a need for people. The decision facing the secularists is that they have a choice, to support Christianity, or find themselves confronted by a hostile group of Muslims who will not accomodate or tolerate their beliefs.

[Provost Harrison]

Why accept either?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Elok
If you insist on thinking of humanity as a division between atheists and agnostics on the one hand versus, ah, people like Philo on the other, it will.

Actually, I don't. I think the kind of atheism currently mainstream in Europe (and which I share) is a historical oddity. The "disenchantment of the world" has led to an atheistic era, but it's perfectly normal for humans to want to feel special. And as such, the atheism will die out, especially as scientific progress will show how objectively meaningless we are.

Also, Europe supports the values of individualism, and of not forcefeeding values to its population. As a result, many people question their identity and the meaning of their life, and look for answers somewhere. Consumerism and hedonism won't eternally cut it. Philosophy and religion will come back into fashion, especially the latter, because its absolutes are comforting to those who are tired of uncertainty.

Now, religion (or spirituality in general) doesn't have to be nutcase. I know enough religionists (both withiin 'Poly and without), and I'm aware that most of them aren't nutcase. However, this spirituality doesn't belong to the mainstream yet, and I think it won't belong to the mainstream without a clash. This is why I seriously fear that the religionists will radicalize (actually, scrap the future tense), and that they will only win when they're completely dumb.

If we look at the US as an example, we see that the religionists are scoring their most important points now, and they're more radicalized than ever in the US' recent history.

Fundamentalism can only drug us so long as we're afraid, ready to blame everything on foreigners and heathens and homosexuals and so on, blah blah blah. Some of us know that these convenient lies won't protect us from reality, and if you'll pardon me for saying so, I imagine that if outspoken atheists weren't so aggressively trying to undermine faith, the rot would have collapsed by itself by now.

That's probably true for the US, but remember that in Europe, atheists are much less pushy now. Secularism is pretty much the obvious, and you won't find many activist atheists. I think the radicalisation of atheism in Europe will be an answer to the radicalization of the religionists.

This might sound like circular logic, but it's not. The process, as I see it, will be so:
- (Current) Secularism is mainstream. It is ordinary to be an atheist, agnostic, or barely religious.
- Secularism doesn't answer the questions about the meaning of life, and doesn't offer solutions to identity crises, especially in a Europe that undergoes important demographic changes. Religion progresses.
- Religion, despite its progresses, doesn't become mainstream at all. Religionists feel increasingly excluded from the mainstream secularist society, and they radicalise.
- Atheists, who used to be laid back about it, now feel threatened by the radical religionists, and they themselves radicalise.

[Provost Harrison]

I could post a picture of some woman with fantastic tits, and I'd still be ignored

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Indeed. As Spiffor posted, religion fills a need for people. The decision facing the secularists is that they have a choice, to support Christianity, or find themselves confronted by a hostile group of Muslims who will not accomodate or tolerate their beliefs.

This is extremely simplistic.

1. The phenomenon of religious radicalisation is also occuring (note the present progressive tense) among our Muslims. At least in France, the young Arabic population used to be as "Muslim" as mainstream young Frenchmen are "Catholic". I.e barely so. However, they are experiencing a longlasting identity crisis, which led them to reject the Republic moel of integration, in order to enter a cynical gangsta counter-culture, and which is now leading them to reject that counter-culture to join Islam. And for some of them, radical Islam.
So, it's not like the "hostile group of Muslims" is a given. It is a result just as much as a hostile group of Christians.

2. France had a secualrist model that gave many values and bearings to the citizens. The Republic filled the need traditionally filled by religion. However, as our society has become more liberal, we don't impose our values down the people's throats anymore. Otherwise, they'd scream bloody murder (incidentally, the ban of religious symbols at school is one of the last gurgles of our dying Republican model - and you screamed bloody murder ).
So, if we stopped imposing our Republican model down people's throats, it means that we aren't going to impose any model down people's throats. Including your favorite one

[Ming]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I could post a picture of some woman with fantastic tits, and I'd still be ignored

Maybe by him...