Alexander

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by MarkG
well all they have to do is elect a goverment that will put a stop to nationalistic views and claims...

meanwhile their goverment sites still link to nationalistic sites that try to answer quesiotns like "WHY IS GREECE STEALING MACEDONIAN HISTORY?"

You will have to find a better argument than "Macedonian government is overly nationalistic, therefore all those Macedonians are trying to steal/distort our history."

Oh, and I guess for the "government sites" thing, I need to do the traditional 'poly thing and say "cite please."

they have a right to their own identity but it must really be their own

Dude, they have their own identity. This you cannot rationally deny. They have their own language, for starters. They happen to describe that identity as "Macedonian." Using a name that you also use does not constitute a theft of identity.

[MarkG]

Human Rights Watch

that's the same organization that published a report saying that Greece MIGHT have children in the army because some politician SUGGESTED that there should be an incentive (less duty) if youngsters went to the army right after highschool (age of 17.5-18) instead of going to universities and ending up going in the army at an age of 25-30....

the suggestions was not passed of course cause no parent would vote again a party that wanted to send his kid in the army at the age of 17

meanwhile the report you quoted was 12 (twelve) years ago (incidentally when the dispute was on it's peak)...

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Oh, and I guess for the "government sites" thing, I need to do the traditional 'poly thing and say "cite please."

fyrom agency of information(!), links page

http://www.sinf.gov.mk/english/linkovi/korisni_linkovi.asp

second link from top...

Dude, they have their own identity.

did i say otherwise?

They have their own language, for starters.

it is debatable on whether their language is a separate one or a bulgarian dialect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language

[Kuciwalker]

Arguably American is just a dialect of English rather than a separate language, but we're still allowed to call ourselves America.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by MarkG
fyrom agency of information(!), links page

That's a link to a portal site. Need I say more?

it is debatable on whether their language is a separate one or a bulgarian dialect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language

In that case, you can debate it with the Macedonian language teacher I spoke to that teaches Bulgarian in school.

Language notwithstanding, I doubt most Macedonians would consider themselves Bulgarians or vice versa.

[baronzilch]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Arguably American is just a dialect of English rather than a separate language, but we're still allowed to call ourselves America.

Not arguable at all, it is a collection of English dialects and not a seperate language. Americans speak English (officially).

This is an orange to your apple?

[Az]

Should we call Georgians FSSRGians to avoid confusion with those from the US state of Georgia?

[dino_2d]

This Bulgarian thing is quite insulting one becouse there are numeros documents from 18,19, and early 20 century that shows about Macedonian separate identity from all other neigbouring countries.
Bulgarians gained their name from a tribe of Bulgars who came on this part around 7-8 century i am not quite sure on this and created astate name Bulgaria but the language of this bulgars was totaly different from the language of the people living there.
So if the russians created this state in 19 century and we didnt had state does not give them right to call other people with this name that actually dont even belong to them.
P.S. Bulgar is Turko-tataro-mongolic tribe

[Cyclotron]

It doesn't really even matter. Ethnicity doesn't change the fact that Macedonians have a very seperate national identity from Bulgarians.

Sure, the Macedonians and Greeks can argue about shared/seperate history as much as they want. They can rest assured that nobody else in the world will give a sh*t. What is unconscionable is the deliberate disrespect shown to one side by the other. These people are real people who deserve recognition, not pawns to be shoved around and openly mocked to fuel some Greek nationalist circle-jerk. I'm not saying this is a one sided issue - of course there are some Macedonian websites I've seen that are obviously quite biased and blindly nationalistic. All I am saying is that it is a shameful act to call a people a slur that they find to be insulting just because you might seem like you are legitimizing their own name for themselves if you call them "Macedonians."

This whole topic is just absurd. You know what? If Alexander teh Great were here, he wouldn't side with the Greeks, or the Macedonians. He'd just conquer both of your asses and probably end up making Persian the dialect of the empire. So there.

[Durdyn]

The are are some Slavs that the government of Tito made them think they are descendants of Alexander the Great for his political agenda.
There are no Macedonian people and nation.
I don't know if it's insulting for them to call them Fyromians, Neptonians or whatever else but we cannot call them Macedonians because they are not.

All this stuff about human rights is hilarious. There are no oppressed people. Just a handful of fanatics of Slavic origin in some small villages that are full of nationalistic ideas of a "Great Macedonia" which consists of large parts of the Greek country inhabited only by Greek citizens.

[Shogun Gunner]

I knew we could solve this. People on the internet are friendly and can consider an opposing opinion.

[Cyclotron]

What do you know, a Greek DL! Boy, I never saw that one coming.

Nobody is a descendant of Alexander the Great. He failed to propagate his line.

And so long as there are people that choose to call themselves Macedonians, yes, there is a Macedonian people.

[dino_2d]

Originally posted by Durdyn
The are are some Slavs that the government of Tito made them think they are descendants of Alexander the Great for his political agenda.
There are no Macedonian people and nation.
I don't know if it's insulting for them to call them Fyromians, Neptonians or whatever else but we cannot call them Macedonians because they are not.

All this stuff about human rights is hilarious. There are no oppressed people. Just a handful of fanatics of Slavic origin in some small villages that are full of nationalistic ideas of a "Great Macedonia" which consists of large parts of the Greek country inhabited only by Greek citizens.

Why do you say thing taht you know are not true.
And Tito interest certanly was not to tell us that we are the descendants of Alexander becouse that would be against the very name of the former country Yugoslavia which in english means SouthSlavia.

[Nickiow]

Re: Alexander

Originally posted by dino_2d
Can someone answer me why is Alexander shown as a Greek leader when even a crows on the tree know that he is MACEDONIAN.
Stop stealing Macedonian history.

P.S.
Great game except the above mentionet bug that i hope will be fixed in some next patch.

Thanx

How about because in an abstraction of history, the most well known Greek is Alexander, yes he was a Macedonian, but what he is know for is what he did as leader of the Greeks not what he did as leader of the Macedonians.

Macedonian history is not being stolen, Macedonians of that time wanted to be Greek, claimed to be greek and were acepted as athletes to participate in the Olympic games, a thing only open to Greeks, before macedonia became a mil rival to the rest, let alone become the top Greek state for a period of history.

Clepatra was half Macedonian, through Ptomolomy, is Egypts history being stolen or Macedonian?.

[dino_2d]

Re: Re: Alexander

Originally posted by Nickiow


How about because in an abstraction of history, the most well known Greek is Alexander, yes he was a Macedonian, but what he is know for is what he did as leader of the Greeks not what he did as leader of the Macedonians.

Macedonian history is not being stolen, Macedonians of that time wanted to be Greek, claimed to be greek and were acepted as athletes to participate in the Olympic games, a thing only open to Greeks, before macedonia became a mil rival to the rest, let alone become the top Greek state for a period of history.

Clepatra was half Macedonian, through Ptomolomy, is Egypts history being stolen or Macedonian?.

I dont think taht macedonians were alowed to participate in the games on the bigining.
Here is nice site:

https://www.eurominority.org