Alexander

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by MarkG

from the site posted just above


as you can see, i'm a macedonian waiting to be liberated....

Indeed, it looks like an entire Greater Macedonia is yearning to be liberated and take up its rightful place among the nations of the world.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Traianvs
. . . the Macedonians were Semi-Greeks. . .

Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner.

The Macedonians were looked down on by their Greek neighbors because they were only somewhat better than barbarians. For example, they did not mix their wine with water, and as a result, got drunk a lot.

Cleopatra was only Macedonian in the broadest sense of the word. When Alexander died, his empire was divided into three sections with Egypt going to his general Ptolomy. The decendents of that line were all named Ptolomy (if they were male) or Cleopatra (if they were female). Cleopatra's full name was Cleopatra the Tenth...so she was many generations removed from her Macedonian-general forebearer.

[Odin]

Heres the extent of my knoelde of the subject:

Ancient Macedonia: Northern greeks who were still semi-barbarous because of thier location.

Modern Macedonia (the country): Bulgarians

Oh, and not to ruin the psyche of modern Greeks, but many parts of Greece became so overrun with slavs that a lot of it had to be re-helenized. like it or not, you guys are part slavic.

[Az]

Half Russian Half Turk - the story of modern greece.

[lord of the mark]

and just to remind everyone, cause i have to whenever this comes up, in the 19th century the largest ethnic group in the city of Salonica were the Jews, who were Ladino speaking, and Ottoman-loyal.

Though they assimilated to Greek language and loyalty after the city passed to Greece.

[petermarkab]

I thought everyone came from Eden?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
I wonder if you realize that "fyromian" is extremely offensive to all the people I spoke with when I was in Skopje.

i call them "fyromian" in order to be easier understood by the audience here.

plus, i wonder if you realize that they do offend me every time the distort my history and accuse my country of opressing millions of people...

the term used in greece is "skopjans" from their capital ("skopje") which is actually a pretty good choice from their country's name....

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by MarkG
i call them "fyromian" in order to be easier understood by the audience here.

That seems unlikely. Do you really think anyone on this board would think you are referring to Greeks from the province of Macedonia? Or ancient Macedonians?

Apolytoners may be dumb, but they're not that dumb. Weak excuse.

plus, i wonder if you realize that they do offend me every time the distort my history and accuse my country of opressing millions of people...

I fully realize that, in fact, you might find that offensive, and I understand your anger. However, I do not think the proper response to that is what is, to Macedonians at least, a slur.

On a related note, I inquired with my friends in Macedonia as to what they thought of the whole situation, and most told me there were very, very few people they knew that even cared what the ethnicity of Alexander the Great was, or the fine points of Greek vs. Macedonian history. I would wonder if the distortion and accusations you are talking about are not the talking points of a radical few - as opposed to the generic "they" that you use. You shouldn't categorize "them" so easily.

the term used in greece is "skopjans" from their capital ("skopje") which is actually a pretty good choice from their country's name....

Though they call themselves Macedonians - and it seems fair to call people what they call themselves - even "Skopjans" was more preferable than "fyromians" to everyone I spoke with. Though, technically, that just refers to the people from the city of Skopje - and since your arguments so far have been very technical about location and origin, I would expect you to be just as precise with terminology.

[lord of the mark]

Human Rights Watch


"Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up a large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally-recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been prosecuted and convicted for the peaceful expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government — followed and threatened by security forces — and subjected to economic and social pressures resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly. Ethnic Macedonian political refugees who fled northern Greece after the Greek Civil War of 1946-49, as well as their descendants who identify themselves as Macedonians, are denied permission to regain their citizenship, to resettle in, or even to visit northern Greece. By contrast, all of these are possible for political refugees who define themselves as Greeks. Greek courts have denied permission to establish a "Center for Macedonian Culture." Ultimately, the government is pursuing every avenue to deny the Macedonians of Greece their ethnic identity. (From our “Denying Ethnic Identity” series) "

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MarkG
i call them "fyromian" in order to be easier understood by the audience here.

Should we call Georgians FSSRGians to avoid confusion with those from the US state of Georgia?

[Sava]

FOPOG

[Seeker]

Is the root word of Fyromania related to neighnouring Romania somehow?

Was there a Fyroman Empire?

Is the capital Fyrome?

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Sava
FOPOG

Former Ottoman Province Of Greece?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
On a related note, I inquired with my friends in Macedonia as to what they thought of the whole situation, and most told me there were very, very few people they knew that even cared what the ethnicity of Alexander the Great was, or the fine points of Greek vs. Macedonian history.

well all they have to do is elect a goverment that will put a stop to nationalistic views and claims...

meanwhile their goverment sites still link to nationalistic sites that try to answer quesiotns like "WHY IS GREECE STEALING MACEDONIAN HISTORY?"

Though they call themselves Macedonians - and it seems fair to call people what they call themselves - even "Skopjans"

they have a right to their own identity but it must really be their own

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Sava
FOPOG

this is what three european championships (football, baskteball, eurovision ) in a year do to you