Immigrant Riots

[lord of the mark]

Re: Immigrant Riots

Originally posted by DanS
Paris has been having immigrant riots for the last couple of days. The UK had immigrant riots the other week. So I've been wondering when the last real immigrant riot happened in the US and why it seems like it's less of a problem here. Is it the threat of deportation? When was the last immigrant riot here in the States that you can remember?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4389920.stm

Dan - i thought you were from DC? Mt Pleasant, 1991. Central Americans rioted after some African American cops arrested somebody for drinking in public.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


It's called "history".

So is the Anabasis, and unless you want to claim a causal connection between the treatment of the American Indian population of what became the US and the later's (alleged) better success at assimilation as compared to Europe, it's about as relevant.

[Gangerolf]

In the 1920s or thereabouts, Norwegian gangs were terrorising the streets of Chicago and Brooklyn. Not anymore (I think).

Maybe this stuff is just a phase.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by C0ckney
did you not see 'the godfather'?

Nope. Never seen it.

Of course, I was aware of the Italian/Sicilian mafia history, but not of the amount of violence they encountered as immigrants.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

So is the Anabasis, and unless you want to claim a causal connection between the treatment of the American Indian population of what became the US and the later's (alleged) better success at assimilation as compared to Europe, it's about as relevant.

If you're going to claim that the US history supports an ongoing process of peaceful integration of immigrants, you're being astonishingly blinkered to overlook the Indian Wars- and that's a blunt statement of fact.

Then you've got the Chinese, as covered in the Chinese Massacre of Los Angeles in 1871 and the Rock Springs Riot of 1885.

The Irish have already been covered, and I believe someone's already attempted to exclude blacks on the grounds that things like the Carrolton Riot, Tulsa Rio etc were race riots and not "immigrants riots".

Then you've got the Australians, as covered by the "Sydney Ducks" violence.

Then you've got the Italians, as covered by the New Orleans mass lynchings of 1891.

So I'm inclined to think your theory has a few flaws in it. It looks like the US is much the same as anywhere else.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by joncha


What "right" do you have to prevent them?

Don't you have the right to restrict entry to your home? So also does any nation have the right to restrict entry to their country. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

[joncha]

Cali chimes in against immigration? Shocking, I says!

Originally posted by Caligastia

Don't you have the right to restrict entry to your home? So also does any nation have the right to restrict entry to their country. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

Who are they to say they have a right over it in the first place? Because some time in the distant past they came in and nicked it from someone else? Such a just and noble foundation, that.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by joncha
Cali chimes in against immigration? Shocking, I says!

I'm not against immigration. I'm an immigrant myself.

Who are they to say they have a right over it in the first place? Because some time in the distant past they came in and nicked it from someone else? Such a just and noble foundation, that.

So the wishes of any potential immigrant should trump the wishes of an entire nation? Sounds fair.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Colon


People wanting to move to places that offer more opportunity seems like a pretty scaleable thing. Otherwise there'd be empirical evidence migration flows decrease with global population growth.

And it's not like we force people to move down here. They decide to migrate because they feel their homeplaces does not offer enough opportunity. I also repeat they send billions back home to support their families. Or would you rather have that a biologist earns 2,000 a year rather than 20,000 a year, sending half of that back home?

Besides, for all I care the immigrant can take as many people with him as he likes. No need to leave anyone behind.

Finally, a Chinese can move thousands of kilometres to Guangzhou, but a Morrocan cannot cross the Strait of Gibraltar?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/27/international/27brain.html

A new study documents for the first time the devastating exodus of doctors from Africa and the Caribbean to four wealthy English-speaking nations, the United States, Britain, Canada and Australia, which now depend on international medical graduates for a quarter of their physicians.

The findings are being published today in The New England Journal of Medicine. The study is likely to fuel an already furious debate about the role the developed world is playing in weakening African public health systems that have already been hit with pandemics that have shortened life expectancies in some countries.

Dr. Agyeman Akosa, the director general of Ghana's health service, said in a phone interview from Geneva, where he is attending a World Health Organization forum on the global medical staffing crisis, that his country's public health system was virtually collapsing because it was losing not just many of its doctors, but its best ones.
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Related The New England Journal of Medicine Report: "The Metrics of the Physician Brain Drain"

"I have at least nine hospitals that have no doctor at all, and 20 hospitals with only one doctor looking after a whole district of 80,000 to 120,000 people," Dr. Akosa said. Women in obstructed labor all too often suffer terrible complications or death for lack of an obstetrician, he said.

The study found that Ghana, with only 6 doctors for each 100,000 people, has lost 3 of every 10 doctors it has educated to the United States, Britain, Canada and Australia, each of which has more than 220 doctors per 100,000 people.

Dr. Fitzhugh Mullan, a professor of medicine and public health at George Washington University, who carried out the study, tapped into databases in the four rich countries to learn where their international medical graduates had come from.

He said the flight of doctors was less the result of deliberate policies in the wealthy countries than of their failure to train enough doctors to fill their own needs. For example, the United States has about 17,000 medical school graduates each year for 22,000 first-year residency slots.

"One of the most important things the United States can do for global health, frankly, is to educate more physicians in the United States to work in the United States," he said.

The biggest losers are the small to medium-size countries of Africa and the Caribbean. Dr. Mullan's research found that Jamaica, for example, has lost 41 percent of its doctors and Haiti 35 percent, while Ghana has lost 30 percent and South Africa, Ethiopia and Uganda 14 to 19 percent.

In an editorial that accompanies Dr. Mullan's article, Dr. Lincoln C. Chen, director of the Global Equity Center at Harvard, and Dr. Jo Ivey Boufford, a professor of health policy at New York University, call the exodus of publicly trained doctors "a silent theft" by the richest countries from the poorest.

Crumbling public health systems in poor countries, they wrote, also threaten the health of Americans in the face of potential outbreaks of avian flu and SARS. "Protecting Americans requires viral detection and interdiction at points of origin," they wrote.

Public health leaders in Africa say they will have to reform their own ailing systems. Dr. Francis Omaswa, who was director general of Uganda's health service until July, said that half of its doctor positions were vacant - and that the exodus was not the only cause. For example, he said, some unemployed doctors cannot find jobs because they are not adequately advertised.

Dr. Omaswa, now a special adviser to the World Health Organization on human resources for health, is helping to devise a set of proposals for what African and developed countries can do to ease the staffing crisis. "Africa cannot solve it alone," he said.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That started with blacks being upset at the cops who beat Rodney King but quickly turned into an opportunity for looting among the poor, mostly Latino, underclass. Blacks are a nonimmigratant ethnic minority.

The same typically goes for the rioting immigrants in europe - it's not the immigrants but their children and grandchildren that do this.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by BlackCat

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/27/international/27brain.html

Already considered that the flight might just as well be a result of crumbling health care systems? Governance in the Carribean and African countries isn't exactly put in high regard.
These countries aren't the only ones to experience brain-drain either. Many Belgian scientists also emigrate to the US for instance. Why? Simply because they have better facilities and remuneration. There's nothing evil about that, it's simply up to us to improve our working conditions.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Colon


Already considered that the flight might just as well be a result of crumbling health care systems? Governance in the Carribean and African countries isn't exactly put in high regard.
These countries aren't the only ones to experience brain-drain either. Many Belgian scientists also emigrate to the US for instance. Why? Simply because they have better facilities and remuneration. There's nothing evil about that, it's simply up to us to improve our working conditions.

Well, for once their systems is of couse crumbling when most of their skilled staff is leaving because rich countries are importing them. Secondly they leave because we in the west allows it not merely because they want to do it.

Do you really think thats it ok that because belgian systems sucks and native belgians flee, then just import very much needed personel from third world countries to solve the problem ?

It may be true that they send a lot of money back but that is nothing compared to the knowledgede that they takes away.

What benefit does the remainig people have from money if their doctors are working in Belgium ?

[Colon™]

Is brain drain the cause or the sympton? India has been hammorhaeging IT-engineers and yet they manage to build up an IT industry, even luring back emigrants. Why is that?

That article cites Haiti and Jamaica with extremely high rates of emigration. I don't think it's a coincidence these 2 are amongst the most corrupt countries in the world.

Just check for the factors that have made people decide to leave and you'll find that instability, intolerance, lack of political and academic freedom, bad governance and nepotism are big factors amongst others. That's not something Belgium or other rich countries have actively been encouraging

[Dr Strangelove]

BlackCat, that's exactly what I've been talking about.

[BlackCat]

Depriving a country of their high educated people is a certain way to keep up bad systems. You both send the most educated out of the country that could be the most obvious choices to rebel, and you maintain a low educated population that you can control.

There are only one way to improve the conditions in third wolrd countries and that is by rising teir educational level - a drainage of such people to the industrial world will certainly not help.

You can't really compare india with the rest - calling it a superpower would be too much, but it has so much infrastructure and economical power that it is hard to call it a third world country. That said - there are still a long way for them to go.