Immigrant Riots

[Seeker]

This quibbling over 'immigrant' vs 'citizen' is disingenous. The controversy over immigrants was/is over their ability to assimilate and adapt to the host culture as a group over time, not over the merel legal status of a passport holder.

So these issues ARE an 'immigration' related problem, regardless of where people of other cultures were born geographically.

I still see no problem with penal colonization of criminals. It worked then, and it will work now. I'm sure there are still a few French colonies around that lack great cities and infrastructure.

What a challenge and what a magnificient opportunity!! The opportunity to go from an oppressed, unemployed person, reduced to selling drugs and burning cars in your rage and helplessness, to becoming a bold pioneer! Digging the canals, laying the roads, and building the foundations of a great new civilization for your own people, where you can be the boss and have your own institutions, religion, and laws. How much easier and less violent than fighting to overthrow those of other people!

Vote for Re-Introducing Penal Colonization in France: 1

It's time for truly utopian and audacious solutions.

[DanS]

And if you want to discredit that as a source

How did it have credit in the first place?

So now you have it from 3 sources. Still not convinced?

3's just about enough for a circle-jerk.

Look, I'm not merely being difficult on this. If the rioters' grandparents came in the 50s, that's one situation. If their parents came in the 80s and 90s, with the children themselves sometimes being born in France, sometimes not, that's quite another situation.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by DanS
OK, now you're going to hold little ol' me to the standards set for news organizations?

Note that I promptly backed off describing the Birmingham riots as such, even though I know the situation somewhat through a couple of immigrants in the Birmingham area.

The only standard I'm holding you to is consistency. Doesn't seem like that high a bar.

[DanS]

I am consistent in holding news organizations to a much higher standard than I hold myself when I post on Poly. Further, I would expect every other poster to do likewise.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by DanS
The scale of the violence, mostly at the hands of young immigrants in areas suffering from high unemployment and run-down housing, has left politicians scrambling to respond.

They're using "immigrants" as a generic term. One may be 3rd generation French, but he'll still be labelled as "immigrant".

[Chemical Ollie]

How did it have credit in the first place?

If we can't trust any news we hear, how can we have discussions about it? I could use the same tactic and discredit any claim you have, saying your news sources are unreliable and bla bla bla, but that would not lead the debate anywhere, would it? If you have a certain reason to believe that a news report is not true, you have to back that up with arguments why you believe it's bull, but if you want everyone else to prove that what they hear in the news is true, you end up with an impossible debate.

I would say public broadcasting companies in democratic countries is the most credible news source there is, with BBC as the benchmark for all the others. Not only do they report both sides of the coin on most issues, but they do self-critical analysis and admit to errors with certain regularity.

[DanS]

They're using "immigrants" as a generic term. One may be 3rd generation French, but he'll still be labelled as "immigrant".

I don't understand your distinction here of generic v. non-generic (do you mean that they're using the term because they don't have amore precise one?). Further, how could you describe a 3rd generation Frenchman as an immigrant? Sounds weird to me.

[Winston]

Originally posted by Colon
They're using "immigrants" as a generic term. One may be 3rd generation French, but he'll still be labelled as "immigrant".

That could still be somewhat accurate for the purpose of describing the situation, if there's a high probabilty that the 3rd generation Frenchman is no more assimilated than are his grandparents.

[Winston]

Chemical Ollie,

Public news media, TV and radio, are notorious here for their bias and lopsided reporting, not least on issues dealing with minorities. That's really their only claim to being special, that and the fact they'll never admit as much even in the face of overwhelming documentation.

They certainly don't admit errors with any regularity as you claim. They move on to molding the next piece of political correct 'news' in their own skilled manner.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Winston
Chemical Ollie,

Public news media, TV and radio, are notorious here for their bias and lopsided reporting, not least on issues dealing with minorities. That's really their only claim to being special, that and the fact they'll never admit as much even in the face of overwhelming documentation.

They certainly don't admit errors with any regularity as you claim.

Why can't a white guy get an even break, eh Winston?

[Winston]

Taking issue with dishonest, government-subsidized, reporting - including but not confined to news of minorities - makes me some kind of monster, eh.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Winston


Taking issue with dishonest, government-subsidized, reporting - including but not confined to news of minorities - makes me some kind of monster, eh.

Being a caricature of the downtrodden white man does.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by DanS


I don't understand your distinction here of generic v. non-generic. Further, how could you describe a 3rd generation Frenchman as an immigrant? Sounds weird to me.

That's what "we" do Dan. We call people foreigners, vreemdelingen, fremdarbeiters, l'etrangéres, regardless of how many generations they've been here.

That could still be somewhat accurate for the purpose of describing the situation, if there's a high probabilty that the 3rd generation Frenchman is no more assimilated than are his grandparents.

Now you need to make a careful distinction. If you say they're detached from the French mainstream, you're spot on. However, if you say that those youth have the same life-style as their ancestors in the country of origin you couldn't be more wrong. One of the biggest problems is exactly their lack of roots. They're alien to the country of origin, knowing of it as little more than a country were they spend holidays and where they got relatives living. However, at the same time they're 2nd class citizens in the country were they've been born, or at least have spend most of their life-time, and get to be called "foreigners".

[Winston]

Originally posted by Agathon

Taking issue with dishonest, government-subsidized, reporting - including but not confined to news of minorities - makes me some kind of monster, eh.

Being a caricature of the downtrodden white man does.

Phew.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by DanS


I don't understand your distinction here of generic v. non-generic (do you mean that they're using the term because they don't have amore precise one?). Further, how could you describe a 3rd generation Frenchman as an immigrant? Sounds weird to me.

In comparison, an African American is that no matter if he's 1st generation or 20th generation. I think the term "immigrant" here is often used as a generic term in lack of a better word.

"Racial riots" would not be a correct description, as there are many races rioting together, and "social riots" would probably be too leftist PC.

But the participants in the "immigrant riots" are mostly French citizens, as reported in several news sources. Or in less PC words "Brown Thrash from France"