Immigrant Riots

[Chemical Ollie]

While a critical view is always healthy when evaluating any news source, I have no reason to belive that they would lie on this topic.

[Datajack Franit]

Ils ont brulé des voitures en Belgique et Berlin hier soir.

I wonder that they are oppressed even in Germany and Belgium. Those evil infedels, refusing to stand to the will of Allah

[lightblue]

Most Algerian (and other post colonial) immigrants came to France in the 50s and 60s, similar to the Indian and Pakistani immigrants in the UK. This makes them 2 or 3rd generation.

The BBC reports this as well (can't find it on the website, but it was on BBC News24 just now). I do not think you can blame it on "immigration" but rather on deprivation in certain areas, disaffected and maleducated youths, institutional racism and prejudicism on the part of the police and large portion of criminal elements.

It's like the situation of the african american population in the US, and to be fair the only reason that it has not happened in the US all that much (barring Cincinatti and L.A.) is that the gangs kill off eachother instead of uniting against the police.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Dis
I would trust French media more than swedish media I would think. Anyone know any good French news sites? (written in English preferribly )

French media written in English

When was last time you heard CNN report in French?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking
DanS - did you just type that?

The reason US has no immigrant riots is it has no legal poor immigrants.

Yes it does. I know several.

[lightblue]

BTW on the Islamic side of things for those that blame islamic uprisings etc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4414684.stm

Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have also issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots.

"It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the fatwa by the Union of Islamic Organisations in France said.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
While a critical view is always healthy when evaluating any news source, I have no reason to belive that they would lie on this topic.

I have no reason to believe that they are in a position to know for certain. They might be able to look at census figures or whatever and figure out who is in these communities, but it's quite another thing to identify for certain who is rioting.

[lightblue]

I watched a report yesterday on Channel4 news here yesterday that was "embedded" within the rioters. They were 2nd generation African immigrants in this particular case, had gone to school there etc. I think you're jsut trying to cover your immigration angle, when it's more of a post-immigration integration and alienation issue.

[DanS]

The Channel4 reporter was embedded within a group of rioters -- i.e., he was looking through a straw at the situation.

Did the reporter say when the rioters' parents had come over?

[DanS]

This is just the thing. I believe the FT to be a first-rate news organization, and they are reporting that mostly young immigrants are the rioters. However, I question whether FT is in a position to know for certain the makeup of these rioters, just as is Swedish public radio.

Paris crisis meeting as riots sweep the country
By Martin Arnold in Paris
Published: November 7 2005 02:00 | Last updated: November 7 2005 02:00

Jacques Chirac, France's president, last night said that restoring public order was an absolute priority after an emergency security meeting with senior ministers to address the violent riots sweeping poor urban areas across the country.

The scale of the violence, mostly at the hands of young immigrants in areas suffering from high unemployment and run-down housing, has left politicians scrambling to respond.

Dominique de Villepin, prime minister, attended the security meeting with Mr Chirac and Nicolas Sarkozy, the interior minister widely criticised for his tough stance against the rioters. Also attending were the ministers for defence, finance, education, justice, budget and social cohesion.

The rioting broke out 11 days ago after two black teenagers were electrocuted while they were believed to be hiding from police in an electricity sub-station. A third teenager was badly injured in the incident.

More than 3,500 cars have been set on fire and 800 people arrested as night riots have spread from Paris suburbs to other cities including Toulouse, Rennes and Lille. Schools, public offices and businesses have been burnt. Police have been shot at with live ammunition and have responded with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Many protesters have focused their anger on Mr Sarkozy, the early favourite for the 2007 presidential elections, who said he wanted to "vacuum clean" the suburbs of "scum" and "riff-raff".

However, he hit back, citing in an article in Le Monde a 17 per cent drop in crime rates over the past four years. "Obviously, if the criminals and thugs do not like our security policy, the French support it," he said.

Mr Sarkozy's popularity appears relatively unscathed. According to an opinion poll at the weekend for Le Parisien newspaper, 57 per cent of people had a positive image of him.

[Winston]

Muslim leaders of African and Arab communities have also issued a fatwa, or religious order, against the riots.

"It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others," the fatwa by the Union of Islamic Organisations in France said.

Hmm, it'd be bigger news if such a declaration hadn't been issued. You could also say that the mere fact that they have to point out what actions a Muslim can and cannot take during ongoing riots is rather telling.

The real question here is how the declaration will be received by the ones it is supposedly directed against. Something to be taken seriously - or just a meaningless text released solely because it looks kind of nice. So who are they really addressing, the rioters or the wider French population in general?

[Kontiki]

If you admit you are in no position to determine whether the rioters are immigrants or not, then why did you start a thread about "immigrant riots" and put forth the question of why do immigrants riot in Europe more often than in the US?

[DanS]

OK, now you're going to hold little ol' me to the standards set for news organizations?

Note that I promptly backed off describing the Birmingham riots as such, even though I know the situation somewhat through a couple of immigrants in the Birmingham area.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by DanS
Edit: Ah, you cross-edited me.

Everyone else says "DanS'ed," except for DanS

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by DanS


I have no reason to believe that they are in a position to know for certain. They might be able to look at census figures or whatever and figure out who is in these communities, but it's quite another thing to identify for certain who is rioting.

If you want statistics with exact numbers, they can look at the people who got arrested. But yes, you are probably right in that they are likely using sensus figures when reporting who the rioters are. And if you want to discredit that as a source, I would like you to explain why you believe that a minority of 1st generation immigrants are more likely to riot than a majority of 3rd generation immigrants living next door.

In any case, BlackCat wrote almost a week ago in this thread:

The same typically goes for the rioting immigrants in europe - it's not the immigrants but their children and grandchildren that do this.

I'm quite sure he did not use Swedish Radio as source for that info, and Light Blue had heard the same thing on BBC. So now you have it from 3 sources. Still not convinced?