I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

[Ned]

Der PH, I am very glad you are shocked by what you felt. We Americans are, after all, people even if you think we are misguided at times.

As to the war, we are trying to win this thing with a minimum of casualties on both sides. I hope you appreciate that.

Our goal is to liberate the people of Iraq and disarm Saddam. These are good and just goals even if one believes (naively I think) that they could have been achieved without force.

[Ben Kenobi]

There's a simple reason why you felt pleasure, and it's not hatred of Americans. It's the pleasure one feels when a bully get's his come uppence. Hah! Take that, George Bush!

Che:

So it's fine to beat someone up, if they have bullied others? An eye for an eye?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's a simple reason why you felt pleasure, and it's not hatred of Americans.

When someone gets pleasure from seeing executed POWs and seeing them bound for a public interview, I'd have to say that it qualifies as hatred of Americans.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
Yeah, those feelings you had aren't very attractive, but at least you're man enough to admit you had them - and that they disturbed you. I respect that.

same here. a lessor man would continue his irrational anti-americanism, and nurture it. It is one thing to be anti-war, it is another to be anti-american.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's a simple reason why you felt pleasure, and it's not hatred of Americans. It's the pleasure one feels when a bully get's his come uppence. Hah! Take that, George Bush!


Then you remember, George is safe, and those are just scared kids. Then you remember why you're against war.

Its all POV, i suppose, but i guess you dont consider Saddam Hussein a bully?

[SlowwHand]

Well, this is KIND of fits.

"Don't hate the black. Don't hate the white.
If you get bit, just hate the bite.
Make sure your heart is beating right. Are you ready ?"
- Sly and The Family Stone

[Zero]

Anyone here who's agst the war but "supports the troops"?

[Pekka]

I definitely have to agree with Kramerman here. It's different thing to be anti-american and anti-war. Anti-war as a cause is good one, against war. How bad can that be in general? The other one is not so cool, doesn't matter what the anti is but if it's continued with nationality or race etc.. well that's just racist.

Some people might have gotten offended by my last posts in this thread. I did not mean that it's cool to feel pleasure seeing those POWs. But I do believe it doesn't make person evil to feel that for a sudden moment, especially if non-american and knows it's not right. If it stops right there, and next time person sees that kind of stuff remembers what happened last time. Also some people just like to see big explosions and bodies and what not.. that's definitely not cool, but not necessarily anti-american.

I think it's been showed here that the Americans are trying to keep casualties low on BOTH sides. If it continues like this, and doesn't last too long, I think we're getting pretty good results here. IF we make big effort together and I really mean together and put words into action, freeing Iraqi people.. really freeing them and not installing another dictator or regime of oppression.. this is definitely worth it. But we must not leave them alone, but support, together.. anti-war or not, the benefits FOR Iraqi people are greater and they must admit it. If we manage to rebuild Iraq fast, support the people, get their own leaders lead the country fast enough, secure their safety and help them grow again.. We have to be carefull not to get greedy though and exploit the country but really free them. Then it's worth it for everyone. I'm going off topic really fast so I quit here.

[Pekka]

I meant to say in my earlier post that anti-war people very often go into being anti-american. And many times they can't even see it

[SlowwHand]

There is no doubt on god's green earth that restraint has been shown.
Without human compassion, Iraq would now be a mirror.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Amesjustin


I see you are as mature as you are intelligent. I don't know where you got that figure but is pile of crap at best. The missiles in question traveled well past the allowed distance into Kuwait. If you are going rebutt my posts and accuse me of not doing my research, I suggest you do yours.



While being a proven liar doesn't necesarily mean you will lie about everything, when Saddam has told NOTHING BUT lies for 12 years about his WMDs, any person whose brain possesses the logic of at least a 6 year old would begin to assume that perhaps what he says should no longer be trusted.

BTW, please tell me what proof you have of the US using chemical weapons in Desert Storm?

I said Kuwait borders with Iraq, and Kuwait is not quite a big country, so the missiles don't have to go far. Very funny you mention that they went further than allowed. So basically what you are saying is that America can fire away from 1500 kilometers away, fire from great height, and do whatever it likes, but (after all it is WAR) Iraq can't fire back (even though it's Kuwait, but well they're allied with the US)???

That makes sense, why don't you demand that the Iraqi troops put down their weapons before you shoot them down, that would make sense indeed!

that number is not a pile of crap, the survey was in the newspaper the other day (and it was a quality paper, not a the Sun kinda ****). A whole while ago National Geographic did a survey amongst students frmo around the world, asking them to point out where 11 countries were situated in the Middle east.. America's youth finished secondlast with just 2-3 out of eleven correct answers before mexico.... Sad thing the countries they had to point out were not Turkmenistan etc, but just ISrael, India, China etc..

You say Saddam over the past 12 years has said nothing BUT lies... Well then Sir, how do you know he lied? have the WMD been found yet? I hope for America's sake that after Iraq has been taken they find WMD...

[Willem]

Originally posted by Calc II
Anyone here who's agst the war but "supports the troops"?

Me. But then I can't totally say that I'm against the war either, since I'll be pleased to see Saddam gone. It's an ambivalent conflict for me in many ways, I've been rather conflicted throughout the whole mess.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Willem


Me. But then I can't totally say that I'm against the war either

well then thats no fun... I cant poke fun at it.

[Pekka]

Trajanus, we know Saddam lied about not having nerv gasses. We know he lied about not having chemical weapons. It was only few days later when he denied these in interview he gave to the world that they were found. That means he has been lying for the whole time.
Although I don't like Bush's rhetorics (because I don't like rhetorics to begin with), but he is right that Saddam has had 12 years to try to be a team player. He has not been doing that. After Saddam, it would be his sons turn. Another oppressive dictator. War was inevitable. And that's better sooner than later.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Trajanus


that number is not a pile of crap, the survey was in the newspaper the other day (and it was a quality paper, not a the Sun kinda ****). A whole while ago National Geographic did a survey amongst students frmo around the world, asking them to point out where 11 countries were situated in the Middle east.. America's youth finished secondlast with just 2-3 out of eleven correct answers before mexico.... Sad thing the countries they had to point out were not Turkmenistan etc, but just ISrael, India, China etc..

I mentioned this another thread myself. Apparently about 1/3 of the kids didn't even know where the Pacific Ocean was.