I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

[Traianvs]

I did not mean that it's cool to feel pleasure seeing those POWs.

You know, having evil thoughts sometimes isn't weird at all, psychologists say anyway. thinking about an old hag in front of you choke on that big piece of meat is not that weird, the difference with crazy people is that you don't mean it.. (I have watched this documentary.. was nice to see that I'm not a sick bastard after all, hihihi )

[Pekka]

Trajanus, yeah, dark side sometimes takes over! But as long as it's not controlling and you can kick it away.. It's normal I think.

[Traianvs]

Yeah, though I like being evil sometimes, in RPG's I can never seem to be good aligned (in the famous BG saga it was possible to be an entirely pure evil character) while at the same time I know pussies that just HAD to be good aligned for some reason...

Luckily in real life I am exactly the opposite

[SlowwHand]

I thought you'd probably booked a flight via that link by now, Trajanus.

You just talk a good game, I guess.

[Amesjustin]

Originally posted by Trajanus
Very funny you mention that they went further than allowed. So basically what you are saying is that America can fire away from 1500 kilometers away, fire from great height, and do whatever it likes, but (after all it is WAR) Iraq can't fire back (even though it's Kuwait, but well they're allied with the US)???

Yes. The UN voted and made Iraqs posession of any missiles with a range of (I believe) 96 miles. The US does not have this restriction.

Originally posted by Trajanus
that number is not a pile of crap, the survey was in the newspaper the other day (and it was a quality paper, not a the Sun kinda ****). A whole while ago National Geographic did a survey amongst students frmo around the world, asking them to point out where 11 countries were situated in the Middle east.. America's youth finished secondlast with just 2-3 out of eleven correct answers before mexico.... Sad thing the countries they had to point out were not Turkmenistan etc, but just ISrael, India, China etc..

Having not seen the paper and not getting the name so I could look for myself, I stand by what I said earlier there is a vast difference between 87% of all Americans not knowing where Iraq is, and American schoolchildren only knowing where 3 out of 11 Middle Eastern Countries are.

Originally posted by Trajanus
You say Saddam over the past 12 years has said nothing BUT lies... Well then Sir, how do you know he lied? have the WMD been found yet? I hope for America's sake that after Iraq has been taken they find WMD...

The UN themselves confiscated materials used for the creation of WMD from Iraq in I believe 1996 - right before Saddam kicked out the weapons inspectors and declared that Iraq no longer had to abide by any of the UN treaties.

There is not a doubt in my mind we will find WMDs. My question to you is will you agree the war was justified if Saddam does possess or God forbid uses some of these weapons? Will you still blame the US or will you see Saddam for the threat to the entire world that he is?

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
There is no doubt on god's green earth that restraint has been shown.
Without human compassion, Iraq would now be a mirror.

interestingly said

[Traianvs]

There is not a doubt in my mind we will find WMDs. My question to you is will you agree the war was justified if Saddam does possess or God forbid uses some of these weapons? Will you still blame the US or will you see Saddam for the threat to the entire world that he is?

No I will never find this war justified.

If he had possessed WMD America wouldn't have attacked Iraq. After all that's what I hear even from rightwing conservatives here, that attacking NK would be nasty as they could nuke SK or Japan. You still remember that you are trying to "prevent" him from finishing WMD?

If he uses WMD I'm not sure, in any case he won't be able to use the WMD "en masse" as he doesn't have long distance rockets/ or bombers to launch or drop these weapons so he can only deploy chemicals etc in a limited area, which would equal regular bombs imo.

As I said before, you better find WMD after that war or you'll be fooked


And to Slowwhand, why on earth would I be a human shield, I'm scared to death of war, I am so ****ing glad conscription has been eliminated in Belgium, so I'm not drafted in the army!! (if it still existed I wouldn't be here posting and enjoying college life, I would be mopping up toilets and peeling potatoes )
Also those people don't do it to protect Saddam, they do it as an act of protest to the Bush administration, in order to save civilian an humanitarian targets, but they couldn't do that so they left.

[Lincoln]

This thread reminds me of something that Alexander Solszinetson said. Regardless of how much evil a particular leader was doing there was always someone who would justify his a actions by saying "but he is such a good family man." By the same token people here are motivated by pure hatred for the United States but after going down their list of the evils the US has supposedly committed they glibly say; "but I am not anti-American." Or they say that they only are "opposed" to the current administration. But I still recall the same anti-American scentiment when Bill Clinton was president but for other reasons. Why don't you all do what the thread-started did and admit the truth? You certainly are not fooling anyone but yourselves. Three quarters of the people in America support the president. You don't just hate George Bush, you hate the American people.

[rmsharpe]

Re: I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

Originally posted by Der PH
Nothing exciting so far, but when I saw the US soldiers captured by the Iraqis on TV, my first reaction was pleasure and satisfaction.

Let's see how much you'd like to be in the human shredder, huh? How about Aushwitz? Does that name ring a bell?

I wanted the US to get a bloody nose in Iraq so much, that I actually enjoyed the obvious suffering of those POWs.

To me, you are a sick and perverted person. Disgusting to me and probably the 300 million of my other countrymen.

At the moment I feel like an as***le, maybe I am one.

Don't worry, you are.

[Amesjustin]

Originally posted by Trajanus
No I will never find this war justified.

What if he fired a Nuclear SCUD, it misfired as they tend to do, and landed somewhere in Belgium?

Originally posted by Trajanus
If he had possessed WMD America wouldn't have attacked Iraq. After all that's what I hear even from rightwing conservatives here, that attacking NK would be nasty as they could nuke SK or Japan. You still remember that you are trying to "prevent" him from finishing WMD?

He has chem and Bio WMDs now. I don't think he has real nukes yet, but I am sure he has 'Dirty Bomb' capabailities. The most frightening aspect of this is the possibility (likelihood) of selling this type of weaponry to other US enemies like Al Qaeda.

NK is a truly frightening situation. Check out their official governments site at http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm These guys DO have the capability of nuking the west coast of the US, and may have a leader more volatile than Saddam. This is a much bigger threat Than Iraq in my opinion.

Originally posted by Trajanus
If he uses WMD I'm not sure, in any case he won't be able to use the WMD "en masse" as he doesn't have long distance rockets/ or bombers to launch or drop these weapons so he can only deploy chemicals etc in a limited area, which would equal regular bombs imo.

Not if they continue to use the terroristic tactics they have been observed using thus far.

[SlowwHand]

Never means never, Amesjustin.

As in, Trajanus needs to just follow the suggestion of Lincoln, and be done with it.
He will NEVER get the picture.

[Spiffor]

Lincoln :
I think antiamericanism first comes from the American policies, and then becomes incarnated in the American people. The hatred for America hardly begins with the hatred for American people, simply because most laymen abroad don't have close contacts with Americans.

I consider my experience of antiamericanism interesting, because I've yet to find someone who lived one similar :
My antiamericanism is old and deeply rooted in my identity (it begun at the end of elem. school - please notice such a case was a rarity even in France). At the beginning, it came with the sheer deception of discovering how the Land of the Free wasn't the perfect place that was depicted by the movies I've seen, and that was lauded by some of my teachers.

This deep disappointment turned for some years into a childish hatred, which became eventually a strong criticism towards America and the American society, of which I highlighted the elements that displease me (no welfare, weapons, religion & bigotry, messianism, arrogance etc.)

Today I suppose my antiamericanism is grown-up. I still criticize the policies of the US, as you may have noticed , and I am very distant towards the specificity of the American society, which is a very high individualism. However, I try to get closer to Americans despite these separation lines, and I try to understand you Yanks better.

It is now me who repeats to my friends "Yes, I am sure there are some intelligent Americans, I have met them"

[Dis]

well the good thing is you admit and understand these feelings (to the original post).

I found myself drifting to an anti-american point of view in the late 90's. Most of that was just Apolyton influence.

9/11 changed a lot of that for me. I realize there are people who want to see me dead. They don't care if I'm anti-america or pro-america. It makes no difference to them. They want me dead.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Lincoln :
I think antiamericanism first comes from the American policies, and then becomes incarnated in the American people. The hatred for America hardly begins with the hatred for American people, simply because most laymen abroad don't have close contacts with Americans.

I consider my experience of antiamericanism interesting, because I've yet to find someone who lived one similar :
My antiamericanism is old and deeply rooted in my identity (it begun at the end of elem. school - please notice such a case was a rarity even in France). At the beginning, it came with the sheer deception of discovering how the Land of the Free wasn't the perfect place that was depicted by the movies I've seen, and that was lauded by some of my teachers.

This deep disappointment turned for some years into a childish hatred, which became eventually a strong criticism towards America and the American society, of which I highlighted the elements that displease me (no welfare, weapons, religion & bigotry, messianism, arrogance etc.)

Today I suppose my antiamericanism is grown-up. I still criticize the policies of the US, as you may have noticed , and I am very distant towards the specificity of the American society, which is a very high individualism. However, I try to get closer to Americans despite these separation lines, and I try to understand you Yanks better.

It is now me who repeats to my friends "Yes, I am sure there are some intelligent Americans, I have met them"

Well, let's be friends then.

[SlowwHand]

Exactly, Dissident.

And they'll kill people like Che and David Floyd, as quick as they'll kill me.

And in a perverse way, that is SO funny.