I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

[Brizey]

As an American, my emotions have been on a roller coaster for the last week. Just to set things straight, I support the war. All of the logical arguments against it are absolute bunk. For example, the "illegal" thing. Sorry, but sorvereign states cannot, by definition, do anything illegal. The US constitution, not the UN charter, is the supreme governmental instrument of American citizens. So as long as the constitution and the laws of the US are being followed...

Anyway, the point of that little diatribe was that emotions are what are driving rational people's views on this war. I suspect that a lot of the anti-war fervor is just a lot of latent anti-Americanism, and the war and lackluster American economy pushes a lot of people over the brink.

As I think about these issues, I ask myself, how do I feel about Iraqis? Do I allow myself to fall into the same trap? It all came home to me a few days ago during a press report on people who have been defacing Saddam posters, etc. This act supposedly carries the death penalty. I now realize whose side I am on. Excuse my vernacular, but people with the sack to do that deserve our support. The American psyche strives to support and root for such people. And as we now see, we do not let others feelings of guilt for the past, smug (and unearned) superiority complexes, and straightforward envy get in the way of helping those who deserve our help. Forget the oil, the terrorist threat, the WOMD, forget all that. The Iraqi people themselves deserve better. The price is steep. Yes Iraqi civilians will die. I expect American and British and Australian civilians will die in terroist counter-attacks. Maybe me. Somewhere in Iraq there is an Iraqi striving to be free. That's whose side I am on.

[SlowwHand]

Hooray, moderates!



Glad she's bouncing back, Tass.

[Pekka]

I don't think you're sick or perhaps even a bastard. I think it's normal to feel that way, but you have to realize it and think why you feel that way, and is it ok?

For non-American it's not that hard to feel little good to see American POWs if you're against the US war there.
To feel 'well now they're getting some heat too, that's what you get when you attack' is perfectly normal in my opinion. Just as long as you don't really get addicted to it and perverted. If you feel bad after feeling that little thing, then I think you're just fine and normal. If you don't even feel bad about thinking that way, then you're definitely a bastard .

I do understand that it's harder for Americans to understand it, becuase even if someone doesn't support the war, it's still one of their own.. so it hurts little. And if someone says he felt little good about seeing someone who is afraid and just wants to get the hell out of there.. well it can be offending.

But it's like some Americans take little pleasure from seeing high Iraqi soldier body counts (not talking about civilians) and then maybe feel little bad because they're just people too.. I think it's pretty much the same and it's normal. As long as you are not actively wishing it to happen, and realize that it's not very cool.
Just my thoughts..

[Pekka]

Just don't make it a habit, or you might be anti-american. People who are against the war must also remember that american soldiers are also people, and they don't get to decide if they must attack or not. If there is someone to blame, it's the leaders. Bush or Saddam, take your pick, let's keep the people out of the blame.

[chequita guevara]

There's a simple reason why you felt pleasure, and it's not hatred of Americans. It's the pleasure one feels when a bully get's his come uppence. Hah! Take that, George Bush!


Then you remember, George is safe, and those are just scared kids. Then you remember why you're against war.

[Amesjustin]

Re: I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

Originally posted by Der PH
Nothing exciting so far, but when I saw the US soldiers captured by the Iraqis on TV, my first reaction was pleasure and satisfaction. I wanted the US to get a bloody nose in Iraq so much, that I actually enjoyed the obvious suffering of those POWs.

Do you also enjoy watching the numerous clips of the leaders of your country from the 1940's ruthlessly torturing, maiming, slaughtering, and gassing hundreds of thousands of men women and children? Do you rent Faces of Death movies and masturbate to them?

Originally posted by Der PH
At the moment I feel like an as***le, maybe I am one.

I would say so.

[ThePantaloonDog]

Then you remember, George is safe, and those are just scared kids. Then you remember why you're against war.

If only he had taken Saddam's challenge to dual. That's a real leader, taking the hit for all the kids who are gonna die.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's a simple reason why you felt pleasure, and it's not hatred of Americans. It's the pleasure one feels when a bully get's his come uppence. Hah! Take that, George Bush!


Then you remember, George is safe, and those are just scared kids. Then you remember why you're against war.

Instead of trying so hard to somehow make news, try watching it.
Have you seen the Iraqi people? Glad we're there, but mad they got b1tch-slapped last time by Hussein for dissention, because the worthless U.N. took their ball and went home?
Have you heard from Human Shields able to return home.
They tell of being asked, "When? When are they going to start ?", citing that they might commit suicide if the action didn't start soon, preferring suicide to living under the brutality, torture, and murder perpetrated by Hussein.

You go on, Che. Go protest. God forbid you actually watch, listen, or read.
I wouldn't want you to be informed or anything.
You don't have a clue.


When this is all over, and France and other's dirty laundry are out there flapping in the breeze, what will you say?
Hopefully, not a damned thing.





BTW, Bush was asked to debate, not duel.
Two points. The request was crap.
Had it beena duel, Hussein's punkass would be dead.

[BeBMan]

Re: Re: I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

Originally posted by Amesjustin
Do you also enjoy watching the numerous clips of the leaders of your country from the 1940's ruthlessly torturing, maiming, slaughtering, and gassing hundreds of thousands of men women and children? Do you rent Faces of Death movies and masturbate to them?

You have a quite sick fantasy...

[Amesjustin]

Re: Re: Re: I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

Originally posted by BeBro


You have a quite sick fantasy...

Not my fantasy.

In the initial post of this thread, he stated that "when I saw the US soldiers captured by the Iraqis on TV, my first reaction was pleasure and satisfaction."

Regardless of you feel about the parties involved in the war, if you can derive pleasure from seeing footage of captive people who will most likely suffer a slow, painfull, and degrading death ala Daniel Pearl than you are just the kind putrid SOB that WOULD have that fantasy.

[SlowwHand]

Daniel Pearl will still be avenged.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by DaShi
Or to think you've won.

Of course I think I've won


It would be like me saying: Bush is a torturer he kills for pleasure he's a dictator etc.. you would bring up logical arguments against that. That's what I do with people that say: Bomb them ****ers they ain't worth **** praise God.

These witty responses are pretty lame if you ask me. You achieved anything with it? No! then stop giving jerky answers please

[nationalist]

Re: I become afraid of my own anti-Americanism

Originally posted by Der PH
Nothing exciting so far, but when I saw the US soldiers captured by the Iraqis on TV, my first reaction was pleasure and satisfaction.
Reflecting these feelings I started to become very afraid of myself. How could I be happy, that human beings are captured, maybe mistreated and most possibly undergo their personal hell?
I wanted the US to get a bloody nose in Iraq so much, that I actually enjoyed the obvious suffering of those POWs.

Der PH

This means that you have a sense of Nationalism. I know that Germans are brain washed from birth to try and breed out that "evil German Nationalism", but Germans and other Europeans still have nationalistic feelings. The U.S. is a rival with whom you have serioius disagreements with, and you enjoy it when they suffer setbacks & injuries. You aren't really thinking of the people on a personal level.The UNSC debate is an example of the strength of both French and German nationalism. They want to balance American power. Do you really think anyone would mention it if Guinea didn't support the war, but France, Russia, and China did. No way. Europeans are in reality reacting to the growth and assertion of American power, not to some enlightened feeling about the need for international justification.

Its O.K. to be nationalistic, even if you are a German. Nazi Germany didn't arise in a vaccuum, and Germany doesn't hold the sole responsibility for the Second World War. I think that it is time for people to allow the Germans to hold their heads up again.

[CapitanGarlic]

Wait, Sloww -- You don't think Saddam could take Dubya in a fight? Secret service doesn't count...

[BeBMan]

Not my fantasy.

In the initial post of this thread, he stated that "when I saw the US soldiers captured by the Iraqis on TV, my first reaction was pleasure and satisfaction."

Regardless of you feel about the parties involved in the war, if you can derive pleasure from seeing footage of captive people who will most likely suffer a slow, painfull, and degrading death ala Daniel Pearl than you are just the kind putrid SOB that WOULD have that fantasy.

It was certainly your fantasy that he would masturbate while watching videos.

And if you would spend a little time to think over his post you´d see that he actually admitted that he has problems with his own feelings (which means he´s aware that they may be wrong).

But of course shouting at him it is much easier...