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Originally posted by Lonestar
Hey now, we "Bought" the southwest fair and square.
Hey now, we "Bought" the southwest fair and square.
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We only bought a little corner of it, IIRC. We just "convinced" them to give us the rest.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio -
If they were out cold, they could have at least attempted to disarm them. I don't have any sympathy for the terrorists, but it worries me whenever a security force takes the most expedient path.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Why?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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Because civil and human rights aren't expedient. Once the state feels it's allowed to run roughsod of the rights of criminals, it isn't a far step to run roughshod over the rights of civilians if it's for the greater good.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Not true.Originally posted by DinoDoc
We only bought a little corner of it, IIRC. We just "convinced" them to give us the rest.
As The History Guy says we forked over some $15 million to Mexico at the end of the Mexican-American war. Mostly to make us feel good, I imagine.
I guess it was one of those "We can either give you cheap price for it, or no price for it" situations.Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.Comment
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Lonestar is correct.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Ned, I meant to be as technical as possible to avoid this one, because this slipped my mind.. and now you did it
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I won't say anything to that, you might be right. Although I consider this action to be the only way in this particular situation, when there are hostages.
And I have changed my views on the ME situation quite a bit anyway. Let's not turn this one to another ME thread..
To make additional comment on this particular situation in Russia, when you have a big group of terrorists with lots of hostages and it's looking bad, like they might actually kill them. They (the Russians) realize that negotiations has only two options 1. Lie to the terrorists that they are ready to meet their demands (no way they would do it in reality) or 2. Make another offer. They did number 2, they offered them not to kill them if they give themselves up now.
You risk by making choice number 1. You could lie, but then again they must have thought of that and confirm it from outside, so number 1 is out of the question. Too risky.
So you go for the second option. You know it already, that they won't give up that easily. You know it's now 2 options left. Either they start killing and bomb the place or they wimp out and give themselves up, knowing they will be treated roughly. They are there, and making it personal, so you know with their weaponry and attitude they can really kill the hostages. Are you really going to wait to the end and see if they wimp out or not? Of course not. You take the first chance you get for attacking, which might have a chance. There might not be another chance. Russians saw the opening and took it. That's the only way to do it. With those kinds of terrorists, you don't simply play the game of chess and trust they are not able to act. You play more simple game, suspect the worst, act when it's possible, kill every terrorist inside.In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
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"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.Comment
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The terrorists still had explosives wrapped around thier bodies. The spec opps guys apparently wanted to leave nothing to chance.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If they were out cold, they could have at least attempted to disarm them. I don't have any sympathy for the terrorists, but it worries me whenever a security force takes the most expedient path.
Lonestar: Mea Culpa.
I hadn't heard of the payment before.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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Of course I am! The sun of P-Cola hasn't baked my brain that much!Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Lonestar is correct.
yet.Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.Comment
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Don't let it go to your head. Even a broken clock is right twice a day . . . unless it uses an electric or LED display.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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apparantly, the Russian special force did not use stun gas when they entered, but nerve gas. Highly letal. A great deal of hostages and hostage takers died because of it. It was not a clean raid at all...Quod Me Nutrit Me DestruitComment
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If it had been nerve gas, then we woud have many hundreads of dead.
There are many types os gasses that could have been used: many people react badly to simple tear gas, and whatever was used was ceratinly stronger. The fact that the Russian forces won't say what gas was used makes me think that either a) its a new concoction of the Russian secret services and they don't want the recipe to get out, or b) they used a ban substance. Many types of gasses, not just lethat ones, are banned under Chemical weapons conventions.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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545 hostages in hospital!CSPAComment
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I read that they may have used CO2.
But I doubt that now.CSPAComment
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if 545 are in the hospital, it's not a simple reaction towards a stronger form of tear gas. No question about that.
Another thing pointing towards nerve gas: some of the hostage takers were found dead sitting in their chairs (they didn't even get the time to get up). it hit them so swiftly, and so severely, that they died within seconds. No form of stun gas is that fast, and that letal.Quod Me Nutrit Me DestruitComment
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