Russian Forces Enter Theatre, End Hostage Situation

[Boris Godunov]

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021026-042240-6442r

The doctors in the footage described the gas as being a neuro-paralyzing agent, one that disables the body's nervous system. The description contrasts with other reports that described it as a sleeping gas.

Fez, remember how you promised to change your ways and back up your claims with sources?

[Saint Marcus]

sigh. it is done, this thread already has degenerated into another Everyone Vs. Fez's Stupidity.

well, the positive thing is that we've established that tear gas was not used, and that this therefor wasn't a clean raid.

[Ned]

Just reading the news, it appears that the plan was to use the gas to knock everyone out, and administer anti-dote to the hostages.

But something went wrong. Either some of the gunmen were able to avoid the gas and hold up the rescuers for a while, or the special forces didn't have enough of the the anti-dote.

[Saint Marcus]

in other words: a huge **** up?

[Urban Ranger]

I don't see it as anything but a decisive victory. Given the circumstances, there's very little that can be done.

[Boris Godunov]

The hostage death toll is up to 118 now.

[Sprayber]

Marcus: What exactly would you have done differently. Like Urban stated there wasn't much of a choice for the Russians. I'm no fan of what they do in Chechnya but given the prospect of what could have happened, it turned out better than what everyone thought it would.

Interesting how they were proud of the fact the theater wasnt destroyed. It must be an impressive building to house all those people. Does anyone know if it was an old structure.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Breaking news on CNN:

All but one of the 118 dead hostages died from inhalation of the nerve gas.

[Saint Marcus]

Like Urban stated there wasn't much of a choice for the Russians.

what if the gas used turns out to be some internationally banned chemical agent? you still support them then?

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


what if the gas used turns out to be some internationally banned chemical agent? you still support them then?

Why dont you wait till that is determined one way or the other before you make up your mind. I'll reserve judgement till then. If they have used a banned chemical agent then I'll join you in condeming them. But until then all I see is that things turned out a lot better than everyone feared. Keep in mind that I think what they have done in Chechnya is a horrible thing. But the Chechens did not endure themselves to anyone by taking the hostages.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


what if the gas used turns out to be some internationally banned chemical agent? you still support them then?

Unless someone shows me a way that would have been as successful, yes, even then.

[Dr Strangelove]

IIRC Sarin and VX generally kill within 5 to 10 minutes, so I would doubt that they or something like them was used. That particular class of nerve gas agents I believe act by paralyzing the nervous system, not by knocking people out. When people pass out due to classic nerve gas poisoning it's because they are dying of asphyxia. There is an antidote, but It's difficult to imagine someone planning to use this type of agent with the hope of giving the antidote to some 700+ people within the narrow time limit before resuscitation is not possible. Then again, one report said that the Russians sent in over one hundred troops. Maybe each one was supposed to give the antidote to 5 to 10 hostages. Next problem: giving the antidote IV would take too long, but giving it IM the absorption might not be fast enough to take effect before circulatory collapse sets in, particularily if you've already waited long enough for the gunmen to become incapacitated and you've got to move one hundred troops into the building and disperse them to all the victims. Oh, and you've also got to disarm the boms.

[Saint Marcus]

All but one of the 118 dead hostages died from inhalation of the nerve gas.

in other words: the hostage takers weren't killing the hostages at all!!!

[JCG]

Well, at least TWO people did die from gunshot wounds...

Taken from CNN.com:

"'A lot of blood'
Details of the run-up to the special forces bursting into the theatre became clearer on Sunday.

A reporter for the Interfax news agency, Olga Chernyak, who was among the hostages, said: "I lost consciousness and woke up in the emergency room," she said, but she insisted the operation was necessary.

"We were all waiting to die. We understood that they would not let us out alive," Interfax quoted her as saying.

"They (Chechen rebels) killed two hostages before our eyes, a woman and a man. They shot the man in the eye, there was a lot of blood."

But she went on to say that the two hostages were killed in response to a young boy having a tantrum and running for the exit.

"He dashed towards the exit, shouting: 'Mummy, I don't know what to do.' They opened fire on him, but missed and hit seated people instead," she told Russian television from her hospital bed late on Saturday."

[The Mad Monk]

*Ahem*

'A lot of blood'
Details of the run-up to the special forces bursting into the theatre became clearer on Sunday.

A reporter for the Interfax news agency, Olga Chernyak, who was among the hostages, said: "I lost consciousness and woke up in the emergency room," she said, but she insisted the operation was necessary.

"We were all waiting to die. We understood that they would not let us out alive," Interfax quoted her as saying.

"They (Chechen rebels) killed two hostages before our eyes, a woman and a man. They shot the man in the eye, there was a lot of blood."

But she went on to say that the two hostages were killed in response to a young boy having a tantrum and running for the exit.

"He dashed towards the exit, shouting: 'Mummy, I don't know what to do.' They opened fire on him, but missed and hit seated people instead," she told Russian television from her hospital bed late on Saturday.

Putin called the operation on the theatre part of the international fight against terrorism.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/27/moscow.putin/index.html