Pledge of Alligiance - Unconstitutional?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Sprayber
The state doesn't require you to say it.

Wrong. The suit was brought by an atheist whose daughter was being required to say the pledge in school.

If people want to say "under God," that's fine with me. But when the State orders me to say those words, I have a problem. Hmmm, maybe I'll substitute "under Satan" just to mess with their minds.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Really? I was required to recite the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, The Gettysburg Address, and a variety of other documents of US history which made referrences to God in one way or the other throughout my primary and secondary education.

The key phrase was "regular basis".

One could argue that if being made to recite in school a historical work that refers to God is forcing religion down a child's throat that making them read or study it is essentially as unconstitutional. After all, if the material is read and is part of an assignment it is potentially discussable and testable, either of which would force the poor innocent to assimilate the offensive material. So congratualations, you've just outlawed the vast bulk of history.

Absolute nonsense.
I'm not saying we should rewrite history, I'm saying that the stuff we keep saying NOW, like the pledge, doesn't need to contain "under God". It was added in the 1950s and there wasn't a huge uproar, but the second someone mentions taking it out, the Christians from around the nation unite to keep it in. It's ridiculous.

It's not asking to outlaw history, it's saying remove useless words that alienate people who aren't from the same monotheistic background.

Simple, da?

Oh, and Canada still subsidizes a particular church with actual large sums of real money, so evidently Canada doesn't even have a doctrine of seperation opf church and state.

I believe you're talking about the Catholic Schools? But the Catholic School District is completely optional. Here we have the Public Schools (no religion at all), and the Catholic Schools (religion).

Very moot point. BTW, I'm all for reforming Canada's government so don't get me started on that.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

In Shinto the Emporer is a god!

Not all versions of Shinto...

Just like Buddha's a god in "greater path" (?) buddhism, but not in the other ones...

[KrazyHorse]

Oh, and Canada still subsidizes a particular church with actual large sums of real money, so evidently Canada doesn't even have a doctrine of seperation opf church and state

I wish I knew what you were talking about here...

There are still some old divisions left between Catholic and Prot. school systems (not an longer in Quebec) but they're fundamentally meaningless. Schools are secular, as well they should be...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
That's getting appealed. The SCOTUS has already affirmed the legality of the national motto and I doubt that they are in any mood to change it now given the composition of the Court.

Interesting secular state you have. No wonder you have all kinds of nutcases such as YEC's cropping up everywhere.

[Roland]

I couldn't care less about an "under God" or not.

But does that mean this silly nationalist mantra is actually mandated by (federal or state) law ? For all schools or only public ones ?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Not all versions of Shinto...

Just like Buddha's a god in "greater path" (?) buddhism, but not in the other ones...

There are no deities per se in Buddhism...

[KrazyHorse]

IIRC, in one version Buddha's looked on as some sort of divine being. In the slimmed-down version he's just a man who achieved enlightenment.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Roland
I couldn't care less about an "under God" or not.

But does that mean this silly nationalist mantra is actually mandated by (federal or state) law ? For all schools or only public ones ?

Roland, Apparently around 28 states have mandated their public schools recite the Pledge. Since 9/11, 5 or so additional states are moving to require it.

States normally do not tell private schools what to teach. Most are sectarian. Such an order would also violate the 1st Amendment.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
No wonder you have all kinds of nutcases such as YEC's cropping up everywhere.

YEC's?

[MarkG]

"A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a .... nation 'under no god', because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion," Judge Alfred T. Goodwin

1 = -1

[Vlad Antlerkov]

Young-earth Creationists. Like CivNation

[SlowwHand]

The whole question is bull****.

[monolith94]

How about replacing under god with under democracy? I don't think they should have put in under god in the first place. I disagree with senate on this one, and I'm religious…

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Not all versions of Shinto...

Just like Buddha's a god in "greater path" (?) buddhism, but not in the other ones...

What do you mean "not in all versions"? Shinto was the official state religion of Japan. The very basis of the religion was the deity of the emporer!