When can I call myself a Southerner?

[Apocalypse]

We shouldn't!! If they hurt themselves, so what? It is a part of growing up. Just because a b/f and g/f have sex on the first date doesn't mean they are horrible people. It doesn't mean they've done anything wrong!! (are you getting that this has happened to me ). How can we dictate to them that they shouldn't have casual sex 'to protect them from getting hurt'. I don't think we should. Why? Because I don't think that it will hurt them to have sex before marriage.

We don't believe they are horrible people. That isn't the point. It is just that they really took a risk. It can hurt to have sex before marriage. Think of all the children born out of marriage. It just doesn't affect them. Lemme tell you a story about me. Do not read ahead if you don't like to feel sad.

Shortly after the worst two days of my life, I immediately started pulling that life back together. My best friend, the nice guy that he was, decided to help me out by suggesting that me and this good looking girl I've known for a long time start going out. We did a lot of stuff for over a year and a half, largely because I kept her interested with my weird life. She (like many other people) found it facinating. One of the other things that kept us together is that I hated my parents and she hated her stepfather. Like many other people, we didn't want to find replacements for them, we just wanted those figures out of our lives forever. With me not wanting to be a father, this worked out well for her.

You're probably wondering where I'm going with all this. Well, early last September the protection failed and she got pregnant. Her stepfather got really upset and divorced her mother. She and her mother then moved to Colorado. All the while she had told me it was her boyfriend's. You see, she was worried that I might want to get involved, and since she wanted no father figure in her life, that was a large fear. Well, early last month her relationship with her mother broke down and she got really depressed and didn't eat. The baby died and she had a breakdown, probably similar to the one I had at the beginning of this story.

How did I find out about this? Well, the Friday before last (May 24th), something really good happened to me. It gave me this really nice realization. Anyway, I called this second girl who is currently my best friend (the other one died) to talk about this as well as this plan I we've set up to allow her to stay with her boyfriend for almost the whole week this coming week, without her parents knowing. She told me what happened, so I called the girl in Colorado, but she doesn't want to talk to me anymore. Anyway, for the past week I've been trying to fix this problem without success. You see, bad things can happen, unless you want to believe that I'm just horribly unlucky. Now, this isn't why I support Chivalry, because I don't believe in taking my personal experience and believing it could happen to other (because I'm just horribly unlucky). See had bad this has gone? I haven't even told you the worse part about it for me.

Tell you are joking? You just described superficiality and said they aren't superficial . If you don't like a guy because he didn't hold the door open, you are being very, very superficial. Being nice is a totally different thing entirely.

Well, if the guy isn't nice enough to hold a door open and has no money, the only reason to be with him is for looks. At least the rich guy has a nice personality too. I'm not saying that southern women go for rich guys (going back to the story of my life, I have no money), they like people for a number of reasons. It's just that why would someone like a poor guy who is inconsiderate?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, if the guy isn't nice enough to hold a door open and has no money, the only reason to be with him is for looks.

Holding a door open for a woman (and only a woman) has nothing to do with being a nice person. So if the guy's girl hold the door open for him, he's an *******?!



You still got me rolling on the floor with that comment!

[Apocalypse]

It depends on what the guy is doing. If the girl is closer to the door then she could open it and then as the guy walks through first, he can grab the door and hold it open for her. This doesn't always have to be the case. If people are in a hurry, then being nice can be thrown out the door, as everyone can be happier just leaving as soon as possible.

BTW, I'm so glad to see that you could laugh after shortly after reading the previous account (assuming you decided to read it).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well it was too long .

And Apoc, that is all good and well, but it isn't chivalry. Chivalry says the guy ALWAYS opens the door for the woman. If the woman gets there first, then she waits for the guy to come and open the door. See why I hate chivalry?

Being nice to be nice is one thing... being chivalrous is another.

[monolith94]

"you won't find a better man than a southern man anywhere. "

Nope. Wrong.

[Lincoln]

I think that if some here were on the Titanic when it was sinking they would have preferred if the captain would have said "every man for himself" instead of "women and children first".

The South still knows the difference and the women here appreciate it generally except for the carpet baggers...

[Apocalypse]

Well it was too long

I never would have told it if I couldn't make a point with it.

And Apoc, that is all good and well, but it isn't chivalry. Chivalry says the guy ALWAYS opens the door for the woman. If the woman gets there first, then she waits for the guy to come and open the door.

Yes it is. It all depends on the circumstances. Maybe it's Chivarly from the Middle Ages, but that isn't the Southern definition.

[boann]

Originally posted by monolith94
"you won't find a better man than a southern man anywhere. "

Nope. Wrong.

well .............my dad , none better than him .
nor both my grandpa's . my uncles and brother.
and of course gotta add slowwhand in that group.
since ive known him since i was a kid.
all the cream of the crop good ole southern men...

faithful to their wives, hard workin , church going , patriotic
and good lookin
its in the genes or maybe its the good southern women
that keep them in line

not saying there aren't good men other places...
don't mean to offend any nice northern men.
just saying southern men are top of the line.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think that if some here were on the Titanic when it was sinking they would have preferred if the captain would have said "every man for himself" instead of "women and children first".

Because that statement is discriminatory. If women are equal, why should they go first? Children I can understand, but not women.

Yes it is. It all depends on the circumstances. Maybe it's Chivarly from the Middle Ages, but that isn't the Southern definition.

Then you aren't following chivalry . There is NO southern definition. There is simply one definition of chivalry and that is the man does everything for the woman. If whoever gets their first opens the door, it isn't chivalry, it is just being nice. Being nice doesn't mean you are being chivalric. Chivalry puts the woman on a pedestal (which believe it or not, many women don't like).

From the American-Heritage Dictionary:

NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. chiv·al·ries
1. The medieval system, principles, and customs of knighthood. 2a. The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women. b. A manifestation of any of these qualities. 3. A group of knights or gallant gentlemen

--

And Boann, some might not consider church-going to be meaning a good man .

And yes Slow is a good man (I haven't talked to anyone else you mentioned), he just gets on my nerves sometimes .

[Apocalypse]

The southern version fits all those qualities.

[JohnT]

How does a code that expects males to behave "gallantry towards women" limit the womans behaviour? Sounds to me like you don't care for the fact that there are social mannerisms that might be expected of you Imran.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The southern version fits all those qualities.

Letting the woman open the door for you it does not. That is not the 'courtesy' towards women that is chivalry.

How does a code that expects males to behave "gallantry towards women" limit the womans behaviour?

Because the flip side of it is that the woman must behave in a certain way herself. Also the idea of doing things for women, simply because of their gender is a subtle idea that the woman cannot do it for herself (just like the black man who is helped by a quota struggles with the idea that perhaps the program is in place because people believe he cannot reach the pinnacle himself).

And yes, I don't care for that social mannerism, because I find it totally outdated and somewhat demeaning to women to only do these things simply because she is a woman thus implicity saying she cannot do it herself. This is the reason that my g/f refuses help from men to help carry something, sometimes, because she
'can do it herself'. It might be intended as helpful, but can very often come across as condescending (like the Afirmative Action example).

Tradition and custom is usually limiting and one must challenge those traditions and customs and break free of them. They are simply ways for the old guard to hinder the new. The new guard must make their own rules and not follow the tradition and customs of the elder generation.

[Lincoln]

I wonder if he would have been one of the first in the lifeboats...

[Imran Siddiqui]

I would have put my g/f first, and then I would have followed. But yes... why die needlessly if men and women are equal?

[Lincoln]

That is why I am a southerner. I treat the women better even though they are equal. That is the difference and that is why the women here generally do not feel opressed or inferior.