When can I call myself a Southerner?

[Imran Siddiqui]

You put them on a pedestal, make them an object.

You would put women first on the lifeboats for no reason, but simply because they are women. You would treat them differently because they are a certain gender. That is sexism. You might consider it good sexism, but I do not.

[Apocalypse]

If you are in a hurry and she is closer it is ok. You just have to HOLD the door open.

And this is in no way meaning that they can't open doors for themselves. Over 150 years ago, how do you think they got to the outhouse and to the cooking area while the guys were out working in fields?

[Imran Siddiqui]

... and women in strictly Muslim societies do not feel oppressed or inferior either. It does not matter how the people in the society feel, it is when outsiders come in and how they feel is the important thing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And this is in no way meaning that they can't open doors for themselves. Over 150 years ago, how do you think they got to the outhouse and to the cooking area while the guys were out working in fields?

They aren't supposed to open doors for themselves if there is a male around (in chivalric code).

And I think we mean different things about holding the door open. What I refer to is when you take the handle, pull it all the way, stand on the outside of the door and let the person pass. NOT when you pass through the door and reach back to prop it open so the person behind you can grab the door and pass through while holding it open for themselves.

If you are in a hurry and she is closer it is ok.

What if you are NOT in a hurry and she is closer?

[Apocalypse]

But men and women are different. Plus they hold all the cards, which is why we try to be so nice to them. It's like how my debate squad goes easy on the girls that really seem to care about the topic.

[JohnT]

Oh, Imran, Imran. You are so funny. First you call Knoxville "progressive" and then you totally wig out on whether it is proper to hold a door open for a woman.

Has the thought ever once occured to you that the "chivalric" code (as you call it... most people just call it manners) is not in place to limit women but to lessen the wilder impulses in men?

Oh, and I'm yankin' your dishonorable and inconsistant ass off of that boat. I'm not going to allow some child's mother to die just because you want to prove some bull**** ideological point.

By the way, why, if everbody is equal, do children get special treatment?

[Imran Siddiqui]

But men and women are different. Plus they hold all the cards, which is why we try to be so nice to them.

This is the main problem with most guys. They treat women differently because they are so desperate to get some. They try to be all nice and sweet to them when that might not really be them at all. I prefer the be yourself approach.

It's like how my debate squad goes easy on the girls that really seem to care about the topic.

This is horrible IMO. Be nice to a person because of their gender. Sexism.

This isn't really what I am refering to though. Because it isn't chivalry to go nice on the girls because they 'hold all the cards' . That isn't a very chivalric idea, Apoc. Back to Southern Manners school for you!

I just am concerned when women who come from the North feel condescended to by men there.

[Lincoln]

I think that people should be free to show extra courtesy to women. I have never met a woman who didn't appreciate the gesture. I understand however that Hillary Clinton despised it when men offered to hold a door open for her etc. She, I suppose, is the epitome of everything that the South does not stand for. This "sexism' thing has gone way too far. There really is a difference between men and women although they are both equal.

[Apocalypse]

I don't do it to get some, I do it because a part of me wants to do a lot of good so I'll have meaning in my life. I'm never happy so I might as well help someone be.

[Imran Siddiqui]

First you call Knoxville "progressive" and then you totally wig out on whether it is proper to hold a door open for a woman.

Progressiveness means that men and women are equal and neither should be required to hold the door for the other.

Has the thought ever once occured to you that the "chivalric" code (as you call it... most people just call it manners) is not in place to limit women but to lessen the wilder impulses in men?

It is manners to hold the door for others. HOWEVER, it is chivalric when it is said 'men must hold the door open for women'. Don't be daft here, you know that is what is said. That MEN must hold the door open for WOMEN. It is never said the other way around.

I never said it was in place to disciminate (though it might have been), but that is the result. And why should WE lessen men's 'wilder impulses' by creating a set of ideals that say one gender must cater to the other?

By the way, I'm yankin' your dishonorable and inconsistant ass off of that boat. I'm not going to allow some child's mother to die just because you want to prove some bull**** ideological point.

And my g/f would kick your ass and drag me back onto the boat . I'm sorry, but I don't feel it necessary to die and cause grief to my loved ones for a stranger.

By the way, why, if everbody is equal, do children get special treatment?

Children aren't equal, that's why . Men and women are equal... genders are equal. Children aren't the equal of their parents. This has been set, in law, in philosophy, etc. And thus, better for one that has a full life ahead of him than one who doesn't.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't do it to get some, I do it because a part of me wants to do a lot of good so I'll have meaning in my life. I'm never happy so I might as well help someone be.

By WHY just women? Why not a man too?

[Apocalypse]

By WHY just women? Why not a man too?

I do help out guys, just not in that way. If I hold open a door for a man who in no way needs help, I'd be considered gay and already too many people think that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

LOL, well I don't .

And I consistently help men by keeping doors open for them, or asking my friends if they need help in carrying things.

Expand, my brother!

Or, lets just agree to disagree

[Apocalypse]

You don't think I'm gay because you have only been talking to the real me. The real me seems very disturbing in person, especially with the deep voice.

I help people carry things in too, but I'm not going to carry everything for a man unless he has a hurt back.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well I'm not going to carry everything for a woman as well, Apoc . She's strong enough, why am I being the pack mule .