The Most Dominating Aircraft Ever?

[Arrian]

Well, I am no aviation expert, but even I have heard of the Fokker VII. The Germans, as I recall, typically had better aircraft during WWI. It was a see-saw competition, with each side introducing better and better designs... but the Allies often achieved parity or superiority through greater numbers, as opposed to quality.

I think WWII is too close to call. There are many possibilities... and I can't think of one single design that dominated.

A pretty good case can be made for the F15, but it hasn't seen enough combat action against equivalent (MIG) fighters that have been properly maintained and are manned by well-trained pilots. Luckily, there has been no WWIII, so evaluating the modern jets is guesswork. However... I liked the vote for the B-52. That should get some praise, for sheer longevity alone.

-Arrian

[Lefty Scaevola]

The B-32 dominater did not live up to its name, it was rapidly eclised by the B-36.

[faded glory]

Guys in all fairness. The MiG is a good aircraft ; and has some good traits that the west hasnt duplicated. Such as Speed, Size ,Agility, Altitude, and dont forget the most important of all.....COST. MiG-21/23/25/27/29 are a dime a dozen. And are the poor nations airforce. just because they dont match up well against NATO warplanes ; doesnt mean there not good. To the contrary, they have many good traits as I have pointed out. Thats why 3rd world nations continue to turn to Mikoyahan Gurevich industries...for cheap, effective air superiority.

[Sarxis]

Here it is: the 'end-all, be-all' of aeronautics:::

Absolute Flying Power!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Chris 62
You sure are confused, but considering your assinine posts, it's not surprissing in the least.It's very strange that sometimes your posts are in broken English and in others they are not.

There is nothing strange in this. I've type my post when I'm on my job mostly and often from different computers, sometimes there is no 'Word' on those computers to put red lines below uncorrect words, in other cases I type my post in 'Word' then edit all mistakes in it and only after that copy it in answer's window.

The Soviet enpire dissolved in 89, and we both know it.
Grow up little boy, none of the pact nations controlled their own destiny till that time.

So, you are continuing to think that East Germany, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Poland, Hungary etc. were the Soviet republics?
I should remind you why all this were started by you. You've said that I do know nothing about history because I've said that SU felt in 1991. You've pumped in your chest and screamed that I am an idiot, because everyone knows that SU felt in 1989. Now, I'm saying that it is you are who shows the ignorance in history, because the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact are absolutely different things. The Soviet Union was the country while Warsaw Pact was the military alliance.

And tell us, dear Serb, why you think you know more if you claim to be from the slum known as Serbia?

Buy new glasses for yourself. Where did you get that I'm from Serbia. Do you know the difference between Serbia and Siberia? As for my nickname, it was created for Counter-Strike battles long time ago; it is a combination of first 3 letters from my real name (Sergei) and the first letter (B) of my family name. I don't see any reasons to change my nick because of you.

No, I know what I'm talking about, unlike you dear boy. I bet you run back and forth in your room screaming "I love Russia, it is so great"! while you wait for your mommy to make you lunch.
Your such a cute boy.

Yes, I love my country and my country is great country. So what?
Call me a boy again and I'll (huy s nim s Mingapulco) retaliate to you at the same manner "Old guy". I'm almost out of patience, my self-control far from Ming's. I've tried to be chill, but you continue to insult me, does it again and I'll answer to you with the same.

Pulling comments out of your ass aern't arguments. The Russians agree with me, not you.

Funny, when I translate our conversation to my buddies everyone laugh about your claims.

You continue to be the only one who thinks the way you do. That is the third time you simply wrote what I did as a reversal, yet further proof you have no original thought.

And you still do not understand why I did this, yet another proof that you refuse to think logicaly.

The problem with you comments is I didn't say that.

You've said this many times.

The "latest" Russian fighter is a carbon copy of the F-15 Eagle with a slightly different nose, and it's avianoics are a joke.

Which one Russian fighter? Do you deny that all modern fighters have familiar design because the shape of a fighter dictates by aerodynamic laws?

Big money buyers like Saudi Arabia and Japan but Western planes, hurting fools like Saddam buy Russian equipment.

Saddam don't by anything since long time. The last contract on sum of 1.5 billion $ was signed few weeks ago between China's government and Sukhoy corporation. You think the China is poor country?

Your imagination must know no bounds.
Why don't you start with types?

I've already started it many post ago. The type was Il-2. The topic of this thread is - The most dominating aircraft, I've gave a quote from Janes, just notice, not quote from our experts, but a qoute from yours (western) experts who said that Il-2 was the most produced aircraft in history.

BTW, I'm aware of the "great" raid on Berlin in 41, it was a night attack that was so laughable the Germans didn't know they had been bombed!

First, it was in August of 1941 our bombers flight 1000 km in one way, dropped bombs on Berlin and then flight another 1000Km to return on base, USA was not even in war then. Second, Georing promised that not single bomb will felt on capital of third Reich, and Germans NOT didn't know they had been bombed! They didn't know WHO bombed them, because Germans believed that their Air forces will shoot down any Brit's bomber if Brits will try to bomb Berlin. Germans were absolutely shocked after those bombings, because they thought that it is impossible for Russians to cover such distance and bomb their capital. They refused to belief in this and Brits papers even posted a rejection after this and said that it was not a Brits bombers who bombed Berlin.
Third, you are still don't give any examples of familiar operations done by USAF. I'll gave two examples how Russian bombers cover 1000Km, make bombing and return to base. Without examples your claims that American bombers were better and have greater operational range are empty words.

Your little land will do what we want, same as always, but you can dream of a reborn Soviet Union, but remember this:

little land???
Look at map.

We buried the last one, and piss on it's grave, and we will do so again.Have a nice day, so nice talking to you.

And you'll pay for this someday.
Come and get us suckers, will teach you how to fight.
*Raise one of my fingers out of my fist*

[Ming]

You guys don't listen very well... do you.

Blah blah blah... LAST WARNING!

Next one... toast... no warning!
And I don't want to hear that I'm just responding to blah blah blah...

Have a nice day

[Lancer]

Ming, are you sure you're in the right thread?



Btw Ming, thanks for the 200th post

[TCO]

Ming, the thing that makes the F-14 so strong as a CAP airplane is the Phoenix missile system. Other planes don't have this.

[Ming]

Originally posted by GP
Ming, the thing that makes the F-14 so strong as a CAP airplane is the Phoenix missile system. Other planes don't have this.

True enough... but ask any carrier based pilot which they would rather fly into combat...

[Logical Realist]

The Ultranton Megalodon Superfighter

[TCO]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ming


True enough... but ask any carrier based pilot which they would rather fly into combat... [/QUOTE

So which is a better CAP platform? I agree the F-18 is more fun to fly.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Midshipman
Because 9.6 to 1 is a true figure. I learned that in my Naval History course at the University of Minnesota, and it was reconfirmed during Naval Aicrew Candidate School in Pensacola, FL.

My teacher of basic military course in school was the colonel of aviation and the veteran of Vietnam. He told to us absolutely opposite stories, but yes sometimes he told to us very funny stories about Vietnamese pilots which he trained and who was unable to fligh properly.

I assume you are talking about the forward sweep of the wings. The Advanced Technology Demonstrator had those as well. 20 years ago.

And your demostrator showed the worse perfomance then your existed planes and was rejected. It means that you were unable to create a plane with forward sweeped wings who flight better then planes with normal wings. We was able to create such plane this is the only difference between them. Our plane with forward wings flying better then planes with normal wings, yours not.

And, how can you call the F-22 a demonstraor when it has alrady been budgeted for the fleet? (or the force, I guess it would be in air force lexicon.)

The creation of fighter of fifth generation was made by the order of Russian Defence Department to replace exist fighters with figter of new type. It was the big competition between Mig and Su but finaly Su-47 wins.

Ok, so its fast. Big deal. Can it outrrun a missile. No. Is it maneuverable enough to evade one? Probably not in most cases. Is it just a frame with two big engines on it? Yes.

First- because of this is the fastes figher in the world it has much greater chance to outrrun a missile then any other plane. Second-It is maneuverable enough. Third- No it is not just a frame with two big engines. Mig-25 is an interceptor. And as military guy you should know that speed is one of the major characteristic of the plane espetialy for interceptor.

And yes, I realize that your heavy bombers have the range to get anywhere in the world as weell. The problem is, the USN and USAF (and the ANG) are all capable of detecting and shooting down those forces. In any situation that required long range strikes by heavy bombers, both sides would take heavy losses, but I would place my money on the US bomber fleet, just because of the capabilities of the more advanced planes to destroy air defenses and allow other planes in.

Your air defences while last manoeuvres of our Long range aviation detected our strategic bombers only under Atlantic ocean when their mission was already complete and educational missiles were succesfuly fired. So, your defences far from ideal. As for bets in times of full scale war between our countries, who will recieve money? Everybody will be dead in this case.

May be you'll explain what was so funny in that line?

[faded glory]

Oh good old Tomcats..there really good RADAR hunters and can carry some of the load the Hornet can't. When will they retire those I wonder. There's starting to look old.

[Midshipman]

Serb, I couldn't understand that last paragraph, about the long range maneuvers of you air fleet, could you please be more specific.

The X-80, which flew in 1980, was the first with forward swept wings. And yes, it was deemed unfeasible at the time, because there was no such thing as digital flight control. A forward swept wing is inherantly unstable. At the time, it was almost impossible to create an AFCS that could control it, and expensive. That's why we didn't make more than one. Now, I'm pretty sure that we could do it.

As for the 25, you continue to just say speed. Until the MiG-25 came, the F-106 Suber Sabre was the king of speed. THat only problem was that it had a large turning radius. I believe that the 25 suffers from the same problem. Also, please explain to me how a Mach 2.5 (and I am being generous) fighter can outrun a Mach 4 missile that can turn faster and harder.

You say that the 47 was made by the order of the Defense Ministry? Ok, fine, so it was. My question remains. How is a military that cannot pay its power bill able to afford a squadron, much less a force of high technology fighters.

As for the last line, truthfully, do you believe that if the US and Russia got into a war, the Russian Air Force would not get beaten?


Sidenote for faded glory - the tomcats are in the process of being retired. Stopgap is the Superhornet, and the final replacement is the JSF

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't understand why you guys are so negative about the Russian Air Force. If I want a South Korean passenger jet shot down, I know who I'd go to. You have to entrust delicate missions like these to the consumate professionals of the Russian Air Force.