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Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "thanks" here!

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Saras
    *kills Seeker*

    *eats his bones*

    *Kicks LaRusso in the balls*

    *quickly runs away*

    Saras - eats bones. Is Saras a man or a dog? Did Soviets, in their final spasm of tyrrany over Baltic states, breed talking and typing dogs? Well...as they say, laddy....no one knows you are a dog on Internet

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    • #62
      Oh please you americans out there, please spare our lifes! I really hope that we Swedes hasn't done anything that pissed you guys of the last 100 years or so, we really don't want you to come here and "liberate" us. I, and many swedes with me, actually thinks that we have it rather well so please don't stop by to "help" us out. I beg you to forgive us for anything we might have said to comment on the way you guys rule your nation. Please don't crash any spyplane with our commercial flights or make us turn over "Inga", cause we really don't have her.

      It's close to midnight and something evil's is lurking in the dark.

      Comment


      • #63
        Does Inga look like this?!?!

        Well then hand the b1tch over!!?!?
        Attached Files
        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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        • #64
          Re: Re: Re: This is not sarcasm!

          Originally posted by Sikander
          Yea, I bet he is really thankful that a hack named Marx created a bogus system of predicting history, which was used by ruthless psuedo-intellectuals to seize power in agrarian mostly illiterate states,...
          That would have happened under any other economic/political system too. In fact, without this Hilter might have been even more of a problem.

          Tell me Rogan, where is the historical record of unbridled capitalism that can claim even a fraction of the misery caused by those who called themselves communists?
          You're kidding right? Unbridled capitalism is just as bad as unbridled communism. Just look at South America, and the deplorable inequalities of wealth and poverty. Or perhaps one should look at what a 'capitalist' country did to Cambodia and Laos. And I wouldn't even call the US a capitalist country - it has a mixed economy too, although more to the capitalist side. Even the libertarians aren't true capitalists (although they are close enough to be dangerous!).

          Most people call the atrocity perpetuated upon Russia and it's sphere of influence communism, and most people call the economic system of the west capitalism. Since there has never been an example of 'good' communism AFAIK, the term should rightfully be applied to the millions of people who called themselves communists and the states which they created and ran into the ground.
          This is the heart of my complaint. One should not sully the label 'communism' with the regime in the old USSR - they were not true communists. Have you ever read any of the Culture books by Ian Banks? That would be a true communist society.

          For the record, I do not believe that a command economy (or communism) is appropriate at our stage of development. State moderated capitalism works much better (because people are well motivated by greed). But I would not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Communism is a great idea, and I, for one, hope that mankind will one day reach a level of development where a democratic communist society will work.

          Unfortunately it seems that some people are so close minded as to object to an economic system because of its past associations, rather than develop a balanced view based on its advantages and disadvantages.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Re: Re: Re: This is not sarcasm!

            Originally posted by LaRusso
            I guess communists exterminated Native Indians. .
            If you mean Native American Indians, most of them died from disease brought over by European conquerers. These Europeans were the survivors of centuries of plagues and had built up considerable resistance. The nonresistant natives were hit with not one, but many plagues all at once. Population centers were decimated, cities abandoned, and much of the national culture was lost in the process. This was the first major "germ war" although it was unintentional. Noone, not even capitalists, can be blamed for it.

            While there are many shameful episodes in history of the US dealing with the natives, there are relatively few major armed conflicts. Australia's history is similar. So thin was the native population that even the devastation of the US Civil War did little to stop the white man from expanding west.

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            • #66
              Re: Re: Re: Re: This is not sarcasm!

              Originally posted by Rogan Josh
              Unbridled capitalism is just as bad as unbridled communism. Just look at South America, and the deplorable inequalities of wealth and poverty.
              There are capitalist countries in S. America? You're going to have to prove that.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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              • #67
                Re: Re: Re: Re: This is not sarcasm!

                Originally posted by Rogan Josh

                I wouldn't even call the US a capitalist country - it has a mixed economy too, although more to the capitalist side. Even the libertarians aren't true capitalists (although they are close enough to be dangerous!).
                You are correct. Pure capitalism leads to huge economic disparities which inevitably leads to unrest. I'll glady pay taxes and endure the much-lambasted-but-mostly-rare
                welfare cheats in order to have a stable government.

                This is the heart of my complaint. One should not sully the label 'communism' with the regime in the old USSR - they were not true communists
                There is no such thing as a "true communist" or a "true capitalist". We are all individuals with mixed opinions on how the world should work. If communism requires "true communists" to work, it will never be achievable.

                Have you ever read any of the Culture books by Ian Banks? That would be a true communist society.
                I don't put much faith in books as the way towards some utopian path. The real world invariably comes up with situations not covered in the one's "bible."

                Communism is a great idea
                No, Communism is a great ideal, but like all ideals it is unachievable. Libertarism, Capitalism and even Fundamentalism are also ideals that work great in theory but always run up against some road block in the real world. As you noted, a mixture of all seems to work best. "Moderation in all things" - some old Greek.

                Unfortunately it seems that some people are so close minded as to object to an economic system because of its past associations, rather than develop a balanced view based on its advantages and disadvantages.
                People react mostly to names: Communism, Capitalism, Nazism. Ideals are universal. Most Americans, for instance, will say they are against "socialized medicine" but ask them instead if they are for "universal health care" and you will likely get a different answer.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Re: Re: Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "thanks&a

                  Originally posted by LaRusso


                  Perhaps you should thank them for not nuking you after the expulsion of 250,000 Serbs from Croatia and for not indicting your fascist president?
                  yeah right.

                  It was 150000 first, and they were organised. How else do you explain the fact that 150000 fled in 4 days, with almost no resistance adn with all their belongings pacekd going away with cars and tractors. (quite different from 400000 Croats who fled that same area 4 years before with many who were leaving with all their belonging in carrier bags) Btw, i think we will prove in Hague that 'krajina' leaders organised this to get Serbia in an open war with Croatia, which thankfully Milosevic did not start (at least something smart from him). Even though all those peole left. And our president i wouldn't call fascist but a rather corrup dictator (who had some crazy ides too but mainly about Bosnia). I guess that 300000 Serbs who did not join the 'krajina' ones and continue to live freely in Croatia don't have much to complain about (nor did they in the midst of war) Apart from the economic circumstances as everyone else. And that is fair since they were bombarded and killed too for 4 years from those 150000 who left when we got out territory back. But you fail to notice that .

                  And we almost got a economic blocade from the west for the former president's policies in Bosnia, which is fair too. Fortunatley he was smart enough not to support Bosinan Coats to the same extent as Serbia did Bosnian Serbs, and we avoided this. And he was willing to accept the western proposals much more than Milosevic was. At least the west tried to make some order in that part ot the world and I AM THANKFULL TO THEM FOR THAT. If there was no itntervention I can bet that we would still be fighting in Bosnia today.
                  Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                  GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This is not sarcasm!

                    Originally posted by Gozer
                    I don't put much faith in books as the way towards some utopian path. The real world invariably comes up with situations not covered in the one's "bible."
                    You misunderstand me - the Culture books are not my 'bible'. They are not even serious books on economics, or utopia - they are sci-fi books set in the future where mankind has become so good at making things that everyone has everything they ever want, and in consequence capitalism is dead, and money has no use.

                    People react mostly to names: Communism, Capitalism, Nazism. Ideals are universal. Most Americans, for instance, will say they are against "socialized medicine" but ask them instead if they are for "universal health care" and you will likely get a different answer.
                    I really don't believe that Americans are that stupid. I think you are being a little bit unfair to them.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "than

                      Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave


                      yeah right.

                      It was 150000 first, and they were organised.

                      They must be breeding fast in wartime, then

                      How else do you explain the fact that 150000 fled in 4 days, with almost no resistance adn with all their belongings pacekd going away with cars and tractors.

                      Your army's reputation preceded their advances.


                      (quite different from 400000 Croats who fled that same area 4 years before with many who were leaving with all their belonging in carrier bags) .
                      own misery is always bigger than other's






                      Btw, i think we will prove in Hague that 'krajina' leaders organised this to get Serbia in an open war with Croatia, which thankfully Milosevic did not start (at least something smart from him). Even though all those peole left.
                      it is up to the 'court' to decide. let me remind you that moderate serbian leaders in krajina were shun by both croatian and serbian leadership (raskovic et al.)



                      And our president i wouldn't call fascist but a rather corrup dictator (who had some crazy ides too but mainly about Bosnia).
                      let me quote one of his 'corrupt' outbursts:
                      " I am glad my wife is not a Serb or a Jew" ( I dare you to find a comparable statement made by Milosevic, or ANY head of state in Europe)




                      I guess that 300000 Serbs who did not join the 'krajina' ones and continue to live freely in Croatia don't have much to complain about (nor did they in the midst of war)
                      true. some of them are dead (like zec family). you honestly think that croatia is a better place for minorities than any of its neighbours?



                      And we almost got a economic blocade from the west for the former president's policies in Bosnia, which is fair too. )
                      hm. serbs get full sanctions for paramilitary assistance and funding, croatia 'amost' gets them for their REGULAR army troops fighting in Bosnia

                      Fortunatley he was smart enough not to support Bosinan Coats to the same extent as Serbia did Bosnian Serbs, and we avoided this. And he was willing to accept the western proposals much more than Milosevic was. At least the west tried to make some order in that part ot the world and I AM THANKFULL TO THEM FOR THAT. If there was no itntervention I can bet that we would still be fighting in Bosnia today.
                      you can thank cancer for finally ending his reign. otherwise, he would still be the president and his family would still steal millions from ordinary people, while instigating xenophobia, ethnic hatred and petty balkan nationalism. tudjman and slobo are two of a kind, it is just that the former quickly sided with germany and proved, to that extent, a bit shrewder.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "thanks"

                        Originally posted by Roman
                        As an Eastern European, I would like to express my gratitude to the West in general and the US in particular for freeing us from the communist oppression. I am aware this required considerable sacrifices on your part and that we will never be able to fully pay you back this "moral debt" - all we can do is say "thank you"!

                        I hope other people from the former Communist Block will join me and show Western Europe and the US that we appreciate what they have done for us.

                        Personally, I'd put up with 100 whiners, for the chance to see this.
                        On behalf of the west, you're welcome, and thank you in return.
                        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Re: Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "thanks&q

                          Originally posted by SlowwHand
                          Personally, I'd put up with 100 whiners, for the chance to see this.
                          On behalf of the west, you're welcome, and thank you in return.
                          Well, for every Roman, you have 1000 guys burning US flags in some kasbah. You are sticking to 100:1 ratio?

                          BTW, Sloww, congratulations on becoming a plenipotentiary of the West

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Hey, he was thanking the west. Nobody said anything about Texas....

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This is not sarcasm!

                              Originally posted by Rogan Josh

                              You misunderstand me - the Culture books are not my 'bible'.
                              'Bible' was perhaps too strong a word. I know the kind of book you mean. "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" is Heinlein book with a future Libertarian ideal. Even Star Trek provides a utopian view of man's future.

                              They are not even serious books on economics, or utopia - they are sci-fi books set in the future where mankind has become so good at making things that everyone has everything they ever want, and in consequence capitalism is dead, and money has no use.
                              Indeed. Capitalism is based on the assumption that man always wants more. It is said that after conquering the known world, Alexander The Great wept because there were no more worlds to conquer. Whether that's true or not, we can all empathize with Alexander's situation.

                              Do we truly have within us the wisdom to accept what we have and want no more? I dunno. Look at any two-year old child and you will see man's innate need to possess and control the world around him. Socialization and defered gratification must be taught - they are not inborn.

                              I really don't believe that Americans are that stupid. I think you are being a little bit unfair to them.
                              Don't overestimate us, or mankind in general. A few years back, one group of Americans was asked if they supported the Bill of Rights. All said yes. Another group was read just the text of the Bill of Rights and likewise asked if they supported what the language said. The support was far from unanimous.

                              Similarly, if you ask most Americans if they think Congress is a bunch of self-serving idiots beholden to special interest groups - they'll say yes. If instead you ask them what they think of their congressman, especially one they voted for, they'll say that [s]he is the exception to that rule, a decent person afterall.

                              Again it's words and labels that people react too. OBL will gain a lot more followers if he claims we are anti-Islam than if tells the truth - which is we have no opinion on Islam one way or the other.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Gozer:

                                Look at any two-year old child and you will see man's innate need to possess and control the world around him
                                that probably explain the fact why western democracies mostly tend to capitalism : human is inherently good = greed is inherent = greed is good (?!)



                                oh , and of course : "thanks "
                                urgh.NSFW

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