Fascists Targetting America's Youth

[Ben Kenobi]

Are you saying that there were some inherent qualities, or rather lack therof, in the German people which meant they were especially vulnerable to fascism and anti-semitism?

Like the sonderweg? No.

The German people are not equivalent to the constitution. The constitution had specific weaknesses that Hitler was able to take advantage of to gain control.

The main reason that the Nazis came to power was because they were ruthless when it came to the use of violence, and that they were backed by powerful interests, at home and abroad. They were actually quite disdainful of ordinary Germans.

Ruthless, yes, and opportunistic, yes, but you cannot neglect the fact that they were able to appeal to Versailles and the humilation of Germany in order to gain a measure of popular support within Germany.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
The main reason that the Nazis came to power was because they were ruthless when it came to the use of violence, and that they were backed by powerful interests, at home and abroad. They were actually quite disdainful of ordinary Germans.

Do you think they gained support with the ordinary German when the economy started to improve?

[Ben Kenobi]

No it doesn't. The only thing stopping Tony Blair's Labor Party from proclaiming him dictator for life and outlawing all other parties is a respect for parliamentary democracy. The same is true in the U.S. and every other country in the world. Constitutions only work when people obey them. If you've ever read the Soviet consitution written under Stalin, you'd be amazed at what a wonderful documnent it was. If the government refuses to obey it, it's not worth a thing.

Did such a wonderful constitution permit the formation of independent political parties, free elections, that sort of thing?

I think there is a little more stopping the Labour party under Blair from declaring him dictator for life rather than just his own desires.

[Ben Kenobi]

Look at what Western Europe did in Africa. The big difference between the Nazis and other Western powers is they did what they did to white people. If they'd done it to others, no one'd care. Look at how Europe and the Americas focus on Japanese attrocities in Asia. We don't, and they were just as bad as the Nazis attrocities. No one pays attention to what Italy did in Africa.

Or what America did to their slaves?

[Kidlicious]

BK,

The point is that the govt can break the law and get away with it if people do nothing about it. Our constitutions are no safeguard against that. We are the safeguard.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Do you think they gained support with the ordinary German when the economy started to improve?

Passive support perhaps, as in "I better not protest or I will get shot or sent to a concentration camp."

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Or what America did to their slaves?

Our ancestors were far kinder to their slaves than were the slave holders of the Caribbean. The slaves bound for the sugar plantations of the Antilles were dead people even before they got off the ships. It's an unknown holocaust.

Did such a wonderful constitution permit the formation of independent political parties, free elections, that sort of thing?

Yes.

I think there is a little more stopping the Labour party under Blair from declaring him dictator for life rather than just his own desires.

Well, that would be the respect of the Labour Party for Parliementary democracy. Should they have it in their mind to proclaim Britain a one-party state, legally there's nothing anyone else could do about it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
Passive support perhaps, as in "I better not protest or I will get shot or sent to a concentration camp."

I think it might have been more than just passive. The Nazis saved the economy. Maybe I don't know because I'm not German though.

[DanS]

I think this thread should be retitled "America's Youth Targeting Fascists."

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kidicious
We are the safeguard.

Not really. The Italian people didn't exactly roll over and accept Mussolini wth open arms. The Italian government, on the other hand, did. The government is the safeguard, and when it choses to no longer be so, there isn't a lot the people can do about it. I don't know of a successful revolt against a serious attempt to impose a dictatorship.

[Tripledoc]

The Nazis saved the economy.

The economy was made good through deficit financing. Inflation was kept in check through abolishment of independant labour unions. So the basic conditions were never improved upon. I think that the ordinary German was unaware of that because of a lack of an independant press.

Prior to the war Nazi functionaries were able to cash in expropriation of Jews and dissidents. During the initial years of the War living conditions might have improved, because there was a systematic looting of occupied territories.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Not really. The Italian people didn't exactly roll over and accept Mussolini wth open arms. The Italian government, on the other hand, did. The government is the safeguard, and when it choses to no longer be so, there isn't a lot the people can do about it. I don't know of a successful revolt against a serious attempt to impose a dictatorship.

Well you either have control of the army or you don't. Armies don't usually split. Some soldiers may abandon their post though.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tripledoc


The economy was made good through deficit financing. Inflation was kept in check through abolishment of independant labour unions. So the basic conditions were never improved upon. I think that the ordinary German was unaware of that because of a lack of an independant press.

Prior to the war Nazi functionaries were able to cash in expropriation of Jews and dissidents. During the initial years of the War living conditions might have improved, because there was a systematic looting of occupied territories.

What do you consider "basic conditions?" The economy jumped up and did flips. It's the most amazing period of economic expansion in history.

[chequita guevara]

No, the Soviets were better during the same period.

[Ben Kenobi]

The point is that the govt can break the law and get away with it if people do nothing about it. Our constitutions are no safeguard against that. We are the safeguard.

True, but without a constitution, to what does one appeal to?