Liberals need to stop sneering at people

[Ted Striker]

$200 billion surplus?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Harry Tuttle


Exactly! By 1996 even a lot of Republicans liked the guy. He wasn't crazy, worked with Congress, and helped to pass bills that satisfied Republicans and Democrats alike. He did what politicians do best, he compromised and actually got a lot of crap done.

They liked him so much they impeached him the seconed they could

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin


One of the first things Clinton did when he was nominated in 1992 was purge the party's leadership of the ideologue. He put them in a back room where they could huff and puff to their hearts content but where voters sure weren't going to see then.

And after the '94 debacle, the best this ever did was shrink the conservative mayority in '96 and '98- but never to raign the mayority.

The dems will never win if they let the republicans define the debate- you win before the battle begun: for democrats to think they can win the battle by acting like republicans and running on "republican issues" is absurd. They need to change the debate- to redefine the system to their image- make "values" mean OUR values, urabn cosmopolitan, urbane tolerant values, not rural, small town, conservative absolutist values.

[Ted Striker]

Yeah, I think we all have agreed on that.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
How was Kerrys election platform more liberal than Clinton's?

On the 'values' front, I'm not Christian in the least (and not socially conservative) and I would vote for the party that would end late term abortions on demand in a New York minute. To me it is a highly moral issue, because I regard it as very close to, if not actually, murder.

[Ben Kenobi]

Another thing the conservatives have got very very good at.

They pay people well for that sort of thing.

To distil positions in such a way as to be immediately understandeable.

[Ted Striker]

Example:

"See them homos!!! Git 'em!!!"

[Dinner]

Originally posted by GePap
And after the '94 debacle, the best this ever did was shrink the conservative mayority in '96 and '98- but never to raign the mayority.

Well, that's sure as hell is better then we did in 2000, 2002, or 2004.

The dems will never win if they let the republicans define the debate- you win before the battle begun: for democrats to think they can win the battle by acting like republicans and running on "republican issues" is absurd. They need to change the debate- to redefine the system to their image- make "values" mean OUR values, urabn cosmopolitan, urbane tolerant values, not rural, small town, conservative absolutist values.

I'll agree we need to define the debate but if we define it in a way that alienates most Americans then we will not win. We win by making the Democratic Party the party that represents the average American.

[GePap]

NO we haven't: this whole "act like normal people", reach out to the "normal people" is bull.

Bush won with 51% percent- that only 1% more than half the voters. The 48% are all eastern establishment liberals? Right- so, the country is made up of 2 types of people, 51% are "normal" and 48% are "Liberal Elites", well, righty-OH

Talking about "the common people" already is playing into republican hands that some suburban white guy in Colodaro Springs is more "normal" than some black woman in the Bronx. BULL. We need to define the values of America, and its startys by dropping the "normal peiople" ****. They don;t exists. America is made up of a grand variety of different groups- the idea is getting behind a set of values that can bring the larges number of these different sets together in a common cause.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Example:

"See them homos!!! Git 'em!!!"

What was Kerry's position on gay marriage?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Well, that's sure as hell is better then we did in 2000, 2002, or 2004.

In 2000 we won the popular vote and came within 1 vote in the senate- in fact, wrong, we were tied in the senate with Cheney the deviding vote.

yes, 2002 and 2004 were bad, but don;t include 2000.

[Ben Kenobi]

As for fawning over Clinton, recall that he never earned a plurality.

Even the peanut farmer barely topped 50%. Same with Kennedy.

The Dems have some serious structural problems to sort out, since the last solid victory they got was LBJ, and that's 32 years ago now.

[Agathon]

Until the people in the red states drop the idea that liberals want to gay rape them while force feeding them Brie and red wine and making them listen to Phish, the dems will never win.

[notyoueither]

ABORTION SHOULD BE...
Mostly Legal (34%)
Mostly Illegal (26%)

Find the middle ground there, and win one of the moral issues.

[Ben Kenobi]

"See them homos!!! Git 'em!!!"

Like that argument comparing gay marriage to removing Vets benefits.

That's the kind of thing they pay for.