Liberals need to stop sneering at people

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Theben


This is a tired response.

The polarization of the dems came about due to the prior polarization of the Republicans and their submission to the Religious Right in the early 90's- the main reason you find strong distrust amongst liberals wrt religion + politics. And many attempts at compromise with the right has ended in betrayal. And in 2001 when things weren't looking so good and the repubs were whining that the center/left was attacking them, and should rise above 'their character' , they whined some more when the center/left relished in the right-wings misery?

Yes, the center/left was energized this election (or radical, if you will). The right was no better or worse. But if you want any chance at reconciliation, you'll on the right will have to take the 1st steps, cuz if history's a guide you can't be trusted. Look at it this way, you can brag about being the 1st to offer the olive branch.

It's not impossible. Che and myself have met with Ming, rah, and -JRabbit and gotten along just fine. I met with Lancer, and we're about as far apart ideologically as anyone here, and we got along great.
I told him that "People all want the same things, we just disagree on how to get there." He agreed. What do you think?

Indeed Brother of Commie

Bush won the election but created a polarization in the country that I don't know can be easily mended

This is a sad day

It's clear there are now two Americas

[Dinner]

Theben Kerry scared people because he was preserved to be a left wing extremist. He wasn't but people saw it that way in a lot of places. We need some who talks in the same accent that this worried people do, who can talk about his middle class upbringing & his pet dog, that's how we begin to earn their trust and make them feel comfortable around us.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Theben Kerry scared people because he wasn perseved to be a left wing extremist. He wasn't but people saw it that way in alot of places. We need some who talks in the same accent that this worried people do, who can talk about his middle class upbringing & his pet dog, that's how we begin to earn their trust and make them feel comfortable around us.

If he was trully seen as "left wing extremist" he would have been crushed like Mondale-certainly would not have won 48% of the vote and 250 electoral votes.

People did not vote for him because they percieved him as weak and undecisive, and for not beingt an evangelical christian. That is why Kerry lost- it had little to do with the notion of him as being an "extremist" of the left.

[Ted Striker]

*sigh*

It almost seems like the Democrats need to split into two parties

One for the centrists and one for the extremists

There is obviously a rift for those who want to go either way

[Theben]

You may be right, but perception ain't reality. And I'll stick to my assertion that his northern culture alienated a lot of 'southerners'. That and being an intellectual prolly intimidated some too.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
*sigh*

It almost seems like the Democrats need to split into two parties

One for the centrists and one for the extremists

There is obviously a rift for those who want to go either way

That'd be fine if the repubs do the same.

[Alexander's Horse]

The Labor party here only ever gets into government when it gets the left faction under control.

[GePap]

What the **** is "extremist"? Extremist is Bolshevik or anarcho-sindicalists.

I would hardly call LBJ an "extremist" and yet he passed the Great Society and the civil rights bill- which I suspect many people here would label "extremists".

And yes, the Democratic party is going to split because it does not really stand for anything concrete. The whole gay marriage bit is instructive- yes, the party does not stand for Gay marriage, like the republicans, and is against a constitutional ammendment, unlike the republicans- but what about civil unions? The party is not even for that nationawide.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by GePap

If he was trully seen as "left wing extremist" he would have been crushed like Mondale-certainly would not have won 48% of the vote and 250 electoral votes.

People did not vote for him because they percieved him as weak and undecisive, and for not beingt an evangelical christian. That is why Kerry lost- it had little to do with the notion of him as being an "extremist" of the left.

Why do you suppose just about every Bush ad called Kerry a "Liberal", "the most Liberal", or a "big government Liberal"? He did it because that made people think Kerry was a left wing extremist and in the south, midwest, and mountain areas that has traction.

Don't get me wrong the flip flopping charge also stuck and it hurt him as did the gay marriage charge but those were side issues. Important but not key.

[DanS]

This morning, there was an anarchist protest against Bush in downtown D.C. Not saying they would find a happy home in the Democratic Party, but sometimes I wonder.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The Labor party here only ever gets into government when it gets the left faction under control.

And that would be why we are usually the minority party.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Why do you suppose just about every Bush ad called Kerry a "Liberal", "the most Liberal", or a "big government Liberal"? He did it because that made people think Kerry was a left wing extremist and in the south, midwest, and mountain areas that has traction.

NO, he did this because liberal = codeword for not believing in God and supporting gay rights. Are you a left wing extremist? "Liberal" is a cultural label.

Don't get me wrong the flip flopping charge also stuck and it hurt him as did the gay marriage charge but those were side issues. Important but not key.

It was key- the "value" voters would never have voted for him- it was the "terrorism" votyers who did him in on the balance, and there is was the weakeness arguement that won.

[ajbera]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
*sigh*

It almost seems like the Democrats need to split into two parties

One for the centrists and one for the extremists

There is obviously a rift for those who want to go either way

Originally posted by Theben


That'd be fine if the repubs do the same.

I heard a rumor that Christie Todd Whitman was seeking to consolidate moderate repubs, perhaps for the purpose of countering the far-right influences in the party. Can't recall where I heard it, and it was just a rumor, but interesting. My dream is for the moderate dems and repubs to split from their parties and form a wonderful 3rd party that actually demonstrates some common sense.

[Ted Striker]

That would be cool


Speaking of extremists, moderate Republicans have sold out to them

[Berzerker]

Why the Democrats lost

1) The religious right was motivated by having a man of God in the White House and the gay marriage issue.

2) Our country is very reluctant to change generals in a fight.

3) The GOP out smeared them.