Liberals need to stop sneering at people

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Spiffor
IIRC, it's Rush who first made the word "unAmerican" fashionable. And by looking down those who appreciate his infotainment show, you are sure to lose them definitely.

You might want to tell that to the House Committee on Un-American Activities, founded in 1938 to investigate German-Americans, expanded in the late 1940's to investigate potential Communists in the US government.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Even if his direct audience isn't an absolute immensity, Rush (and other right-wing ringleaders such as Hannity or Coulter) have been extremely efficient at determining the terms of the debate. They were the ones who barked that any opposition against the commander-in-chief was basically treason and anti-americanism. They were the ones who slandered the liberals horribly, and they're partly responsible to the elitist, far-from-reality reputation the liberals enjoy today.

This, despite most liberals being actually much closer to the reality than Hannity or Coulter will ever be. And you, with your job, with your actual experience of people suffering very real consequences of conservative policies, you are among those people close to reality.

Unfortunately, a stigma is on you, and you don't seem really willing to get rid of it. No matter that you see very real Americans daily, who have significant problems, you'll be seen as an ivory-tower intellectual if you keep showing your intellectual contempt for Bush voters.

I have no problem showimg my intellectual conctempt for Bush voters- American politics has always been rought- for all the whinning form the right about "being talked down to", everyone does it, including the right.

The issue is framing the debate: more important than sucking up to right-wingers out there in nowhere states is creating the sort of intellectual monolith that the right has, with all its think tanks and so forth- again, its an issue of framing the debate.

The fact is liberals will be back- we are not yet even as low as Repugs were in the 40's or 60's, when they seemed trully irrelevant- yet thet came back. We will come back as well, but we have to lay the foundations to ensure the period of conservative rule is short, and shallow.

[DinoDoc]

The unteachable ignorance of the red states

This seems to be a prime example of what AH is arguing against.

[Agathon]

Agathon, just as an example, the best way to address the "bigotry" of the religious against gays is to address why they believe gay sex is a sin and demonstrate, in religious terms, why this is wrong. Simply calling them names, saying they are homophobic or stupid or whatever is not a way to change minds.

With all due respect, I think that this attitude is naive. You cannot "demonstrate" anything to a person who does not hold their beliefs for rational reasons. As I said before, I think that most conservatism is pathological: a psychological response of people who cannot deal with the freedom granted them by modern society. It is quite similar to religion, which explains why most advocates of fundamentalism are politically conservative.

Analyzing political conservatism as motivated social cognition integrates theories of personality (authoritarianism, dogmatism–intolerance of ambiguity), epistemic and existential needs (for closure, regulatory focus, terror management), and ideological rationalization (social dominance, system justification). A meta-analysis (88 samples, 12 countries, 22,818 cases) confirms that several psychological variables predict political conservatism: death anxiety (weighted mean r = tem instability (.47); dogmatism–intolerance of ambiguity (.34); openness to experience (–.32); uncertainty tolerance (–.27); needs for order, structure, and closure (.26); integrative complexity (–.20); fear of threat and loss (.18); and self-esteem (–.09). The core ideology of conservatism stresses resistance to change and justification of inequality and is motivated by needs that vary situationally and dispositionally to manage uncertainty and threat.

From Political Conservatism as Motivated Cognition.

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hannahk/bulletin.pdf

[DanS]

Horse is channeling Clinton.

From FT...

Democrats failed to engage on values, says Clinton
By Jim Pickard in New York
Published: November 5 2004 20:43 | Last updated: November 5 2004 20:43

Bill ClintonJohn Kerry lost the election because Democrats were seen in middle America as “two-dimensional aliens”, Bill Clinton said on Friday.

The party had been “crazy” not to engage voters in the American heartland in a conversation about religion and morality, the former president and party favourite said.

His comments came as demoralised Democrats have begun to search for lessons from an election in which President George W.Bush not only won re-election with a majority of the popular vote, but in which the Republicans also made gains in both houses of Congress.

Mr Clinton, still an influential voice in the party, suggested that too many voters believed Democrats were against family and morality but in favour of abortion and gay marriage.

“If you let people believe that your party doesn't believe in faith or family, doesn't believe in work and freedom that's our fault.”

Mr Kerry had failed to make clear during the campaign that he did not support legalised gay marriage. “He said it once or twice but not a thousand times in small towns,” Mr Clinton said.

During his presidency, Mr Clinton said, he had worked with faith-based organisations and set up an office of religious affairs to reach out to Muslims, Jews and evangelical Christians. In that period, the number of abortions fell by more than 20 per cent and had since risen under the Bush government.

“It would shock people who think we are anti-life to know that,” Mr Clinton told the annual confence of the Urban Land Institute, a non-profit research group, in New York. “But if we don't make that argument, it is not surprising that we are demonised and turned into two-dimensional aliens. It is crazy for one party to not really engage people in this conversation.”

“Most Americans don't live by rationality and don't judge their lives by economic standing...but that is the cartoon that they know well in all those little towns that buried us in this election,” he said.

Mr Clinton urged the re-elected George W. Bush to make the Middle East his key priority during his second term. Solving the Palestinian crisis was the key to preventing more terrorism around the world, including Iraq, he said.

“They would have to think of a new excuse to murder people, it would take them a little time during which time we could get better organised.”

If Yassir Arafat, currently receiving medical treatment in France, was replaced by a new Palestinian leader it could provide the basis for a new peace agreement possible in the next five years, he predicted.

[Agathon]

In other news Saskatchewan has just legalized gay marriage.

It's sort of funny that Liberals are being accused of looking down on people, since that is merely a contingent feature of Liberalism. Liberalism is founded upon equality and holds in low regard (i.e. treats as unequal) views that promote inequality. This is a contingent matter, if there was nobody holding such views, the attitude would vanish.

On the other hand, inequality is essential to conservatism. Conservatives, whether they like to admit it or not, always have to have some group to hold in contempt due to their love of status hierarchies. It really doesn't matter who they are, yesterday it was blacks, now it's gays, tomorrow who knows?

[chequita guevara]

Smiley is right. Clinton is wrong.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Spiffor
They are people too, and they want (and deserve) some respect. If you treat them with contempt, considering them as backward reactionary stupid hillbillies, it's obvious they won't be any sympathetic to your message.

They are backward reactionary stupid hillbillies

[Fake Boris]

Analyzing political conservatism as motivated social cognition integrates theories of personality (authoritarianism, dogmatism–intolerance of ambiguity), epistemic and existential needs (for closure, regulatory focus, terror management), and ideological rationalization (social dominance, system justification). A meta-analysis (88 samples, 12 countries, 22,818 cases) confirms that several psychological variables predict political conservatism: death anxiety (weighted mean r = tem instability (.47); dogmatism–intolerance of ambiguity (.34); openness to experience (–.32); uncertainty tolerance (–.27); needs for order, structure, and closure (.26); integrative complexity (–.20); fear of threat and loss (.18); and self-esteem (–.09). The core ideology of conservatism stresses resistance to change and justification of inequality and is motivated by needs that vary situationally and dispositionally to manage uncertainty and threat.

This actually explains very well why Rove pounded so hard on the terrorism horse. This guy knows what he does.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ned
Arrogance implies condescension. It means the assumption that anyone who does not agree with you is stupid or close minded.

But they are

[chequita guevara]

Since the Great Awakening, there has always been a strong element of 'Know-Nothing'-ism in America. The question isn't whether this element exists, but rather to what exent it exists and whether it is growing or not.

[Ming]

There are just as many ignorant Dems as there are Repubs... So I love this "Dems are smarter than Repubs" attitude... It shows that people who feel that way may be the most ignorant of all

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ming
There are just as many ignorant Dems as there are Repubs...

Not in my personal experience. more of the ignorant people I meet tend to be right-wing. This was both North and South. This isn't to say I don't know many very intelligent right-wingers, especially on Apolyton. But let's face it, even here, you have more Fez, ML, Bob Dornan types than left-wing dumbasses like me.

[Kuciwalker]

But let's face it, even here, you have more Fez, ML, Bob Dornan types than left-wing dumbasses like me.

Sig material

[chequita guevara]

Happy to oblige.