Liberals need to stop sneering at people

[Ming]

Yeah... and Dems like to keep the masses in a cycle of endless welfare checks, knowing it will breed more Dems... Uneducated minorities who are beholden to the Dems for their checks to survive... with no attempt from the Dems to actually help these people better themselves... mostly people without any education

[Whaleboy]

Education
The uneducated
The manipulation of the uneducated by the educated
My manipulation of the uneducated

[Asher]

Originally posted by Japher
The subtle contradictions didn't help

Socialize health care -but- promote stem cell research

How the hell is this a contradiction?

Support troops -but- not the war

That's not really a contradiction. Ideally it'd mean he'd provide enough funding for the troops -- something Bush is allegedly not doing -- and putting an end to the war.

Support gays -but- not gay marriage

Bush has the same position.

for tax cuts -but- for increase spending

This is Bush's plan, and what he's done...

[Whaleboy]

But yes, I think that it's very very easy to dismiss intellectual liberalism as being "ivory tower" but that never actually says anything. Meantime, stupidity and conservatism remains prevalent, as humanity prepares to toast and drown itself.

[Harry Tuttle]

"See B"

[Theben]

As opposed to actual commentators on TV and radio who loudly and often state that 'liberal' is bad, and voting for democrats is a vote for socialism, or un-american.

Yeah, right.

Sorry, horsie, but the real reason is that the North lost the culture war. The U.S. is culturally 'southern' now.

All the dems need to do is put up a moderate dixiecrat next time and they'll win, hands down.

Think about it. When was the last non-southern democratic president?

John F. Kennedy.

Tells you something.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Japher
The subtle contradictions didn't help

Socialize health care -but- promote stem cell research

Where's the contradiction?

Support troops -but- not the war

Very much not a contradiction. I can prefer that we not go to war, but still hope our troops stay alive.

Support gays -but- not gay marriage

?

Support the poor - but- not the rich

Why would you support the rich?

for tax cuts -but- for increase spending

Uh, that's Bush, Japher

[Zulu Elephant]

It's a lot easier to say that the poor are poor because they dont work hard enough or there is something wrong with them than to explain complex structural factors

It's a lot easier to say that Americans know how to spend their own money than explain that slightly higher taxes benefit everyone - regardless of whether an individual takes advantage of the services those higher taxes provide

It's a lot easier to say that inequality is fine because people are unequal than to explain how gross inequality damages society, the economy and even impacts on those who seemingly do well out of the inequality.


Those on the left (me included) often assume that people who disagree with us simply dont understand these complex issues (and others like them). I am as guilty as any of us in talking down to people who disagree with me. I shouldn't do it...I try to avoid doing it...but sometime it just slips out.

[DanS]

I think it was a major part of Kerry's problem. Bush was busy pandering to dumb rural voters in his pickup truck while Kerry was pandering to the sophisticated windsurfers. But I guarantee you that there are more votes in the pickup truck and the dumb rural voters are actually pretty smart.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ming
Yeah... and Dems like to keep the masses in a cycle of endless welfare checks, knowing it will breed more Dems... Uneducated minorities who are beholden to the Dems for their checks to survive... with no attempt from the Dems to actually help these people better themselves... mostly people without any education

The CNN exit polls were very interesting. You saw a huge correlation between education and vote. It sure wasn't the most spectacular (the most spectacular was the correlation of religiosity and vote), but Bush had a clear advantage among the uneducated.

[Alexander's Horse]

One example in both the US and Australia of trendy issues is gay marriage.

Your average swinging voter family man or woman does not believe that gay couples are the same as heterosexual married couples or families.

Does that mean they are stupid or homophobes? They don't think so.

I saw some research which showed these kind of "moral" issues were higher in voter concerns than IRAQ in many of the "heartland" states that voted for Bush.

Conservatives will keep merrily wedging Social Democratic parties on issues like this, and winning elections, until the latter wise up.

Another example is getting too close to the green left - your average mortgage belt voter thinks a green is the nasty person who stops them putting an extension on their house or driving the kind of car they like.

Its dumb politics for parties that need to win over the middle and get elected to flirt with this stuff....

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Even if he was, it's dumb politics - he's been re-elected so who is stupid now?

Stupidity has nothing to do with survival. If it did, there'd be no stupid people around.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Your average swinging voter family man or woman does not believe that gay couples are the same as heterosexual married couples or families.

Does that mean they are stupid or homophobes?

Yes.

[Zulu Elephant]

Originally posted by DanS
I guarantee you that there are more votes in the pickup truck.

lol. Thats why it's sometimes hard to resist talking down to people.

"Well, I was gonna vote for Kerry but, goddamnit, he didn't have no pickup truck"

[Asher]

Originally posted by Theben
John F. Kennedy.

Tells you something.

That the best democrat came from the north?