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  • #196
    Originally posted by notyoueither
    You want bigger issues? How about going off to die for a bunch of ingrates who wouldn't know how to honour a trade agreement if it jumped onto their face and sucked the life out of them.
    A bit overly dramatic aren't we. Come on and be fair NYE. The trade agreement is in pretty good shape softwood aside and even that one is still in the legal process so there is hope.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #197
      No, Oerdin. Softwood has even pro-American, free trading, Albertans pissed off with you Yanks. Haven't you been listening?
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      • #198
        And don't get me going on the cows!
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        • #199
          Why the hell should should we send our sons and daughters off to die for an alliance where only the needs of the US are looked after?
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          • #200
            Originally posted by notyoueither
            I disagree that these are 'minor' trade disputes. These 'minor' trade disputes have a large impact on a third of the population of Canada. How minor is that?

            I disagree that Bush and Kerry are equal on trade. I think Kerry will be a lot worse than Bush.

            And I am accutely aware of the issue of the last 4 years. What I wonder about is if the Yanks understand how it plays to a family that loses a son in Afghanistan when their trees or their cows are given a hard time at the border.

            How would you take it?
            You have no evidence they will be different beyond your irrational fear of Kerry.

            Read his bloody platform, why don't you!

            http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/trade.html


            Look at what he has said on it:

            Just a moment...
            http://www.issues2000.org/International/John_Kerry_Free_Trade.htm


            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4993636/


            Look at his record:

            http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-23-04.html


            Sure, he's talked about preserving jobs and such, and he'll try to do that, but he isnt going to become a protectionist. The meat of those articles shows his past record and his statements on his policy (though there is some fear-mongering in one and labor is overoptimistic in another).

            The fact is that Kerry has overall supported free trade; he just wants to work to make sure there are good labor laws and environmental standards in countries we trade with. Canada has those and needn't worry.

            He might not change the current situation, but Bush isn't going to do that either.

            I think the future tone of U.S. military action and political action in the world is far more important. It is possible if Bush is elected the U.S. will get into a Isreal-Palestine mess; a cycle of violence that lasts decades and possibly longer.

            -Drachasor
            "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

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            • #201
              Can you explain to me what 'fair' trade means in the American context?
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              • #202
                Originally posted by notyoueither
                Why the hell should should we send our sons and daughters off to die for an alliance where only the needs of the US are looked after?
                The situation in Iraq was caused by a mistake, but it does need to be resolved to promote great world peace and prosperity. That is about the needs and desires of everyone.

                You are being disingenious by suggesting the alliance doesn't look after the needs of the Canadians involved; it does. Any trade oddities are seperate from how Canadian soldiers are treated.

                If anything you should be supporting Kerry on this though, since he wants more help -- and will push greatly for that help -- from other nations; that makes things safer for Canadian soldiers.

                -Drachasor
                "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

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                • #203
                  Originally posted by notyoueither
                  Can you explain to me what 'fair' trade means in the American context?
                  Read the links, I sent you.

                  It explains what it means to Kerry's platform, which is what you are really concerned about.

                  It wouldn't damage Canada at all, afterall, surely your environmental and labor laws are at least as good as Chile's, right?

                  -Drachasor
                  "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                  Comment

                  • #204
                    I've already had ample evidence presented to me what it means me, as well as the third world.

                    Evidence is stumpage in BC and the softwood lumber dispute that has run the last 20 years.

                    We can all use more protectionism. Can't we?
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                    • #205
                      Originally posted by Drachasor


                      The situation in Iraq was caused by a mistake, but it does need to be resolved to promote great world peace and prosperity. That is about the needs and desires of everyone.

                      You are being disingenious by suggesting the alliance doesn't look after the needs of the Canadians involved; it does. Any trade oddities are seperate from how Canadian soldiers are treated.

                      If anything you should be supporting Kerry on this though, since he wants more help -- and will push greatly for that help -- from other nations; that makes things safer for Canadian soldiers.

                      -Drachasor
                      I was talking about Afghanistan, geenius.
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                      • #206
                        There isn't going to be anything new that affects Canada.

                        Old things certainly aren't going to change at the direction of Bush, they might under Kerry (but I am certainly giving no guarantees).

                        The idea there is going to be more protectionism is almost pure fantasy, and the only way you can support it is by distorting Kerry's "fair trade" stance. There will certainly be nothing new that affects Canada.

                        If you really have evidence to the contrary that isn't fear-inspired paranoia, why don't you show it?

                        -Drachasor
                        "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                        Comment

                        • #207
                          Originally posted by notyoueither
                          I was talking about Afghanistan, geenius.
                          Ok, how are Canadian Soldiers mistreated by the alliance there?

                          -Drachasor
                          "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

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                          • #208
                            Are you really dumber than a stump?
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                            • #209
                              Originally posted by notyoueither
                              Are you really dumber than a stump?
                              Translation: You have no valid arguements so you have decided to insult me.

                              -Drachasor
                              "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack Obama

                              Comment

                              • #210
                                OK. I will try.

                                How would you feel if your soldiers went off to fight and die for an ally that then disreguarded trade agreements to gain an advantage?

                                Translation: do you have a clue why the world complains about the US?
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