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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Asher:
How do you know the father wanted the abortion?
Asher:
How do you know the father wanted the abortion?
That is another thing though, I believe both parents should have to consent to an abortion.
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Because he doesn't want to pay child support.
That is another thing though, I believe both parents should have to consent to an abortion."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. " -
On the other hand, since sexuality is a choice according to you...would it not make more sense to only have sex with females to reproduce, and otherwise have sex with men?
This way we have no unwanted children, AND no abortions!
What do you think, Ben?
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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So anything that given time and some help will become sentient and human should be given the full rights and protections that humans enjoy even if it doesn't possess any sentience at the moment?Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
An unborn child, given time, will attain brain function sufficient for sentience.
If we consider those who are temporarily lacking brain function as persons, then we should also consider unborn children as persons before they attain sentience.
-Drachaosr"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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Then change it to a "highly developed and functioning" brain. Yes, there will be non-feti, but those people are brain dead and disconnecting them from life support isn't a crime.Originally posted by SpencerH
There is no strawman. I carefully asked you your position. You made it clear that brain function, and not anatomy, was not the deciding factor. Brain dead individuals, who you've stated are no longer human, have exactly the same 'highly developed brain", it just isnt working.
If one chooses an arbitrary level of brain function in order to define humanity for a fetus then one has to accept that there will be non-fetus who will also "fit the bill".
Or do you think everyone should be connected to life support to survive as long as possible, even if there is no chance of recovery?
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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That opens up lots of cans of worms though.That is another thing though, I believe both parents should have to consent to an abortion.
The abortion rights folks, insist that abortion is part of the rights for women, and to require male consent crushes their position.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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No, because I also believe that the two become one flesh. Monogamy is antithetical to switch hitting.On the other hand, since sexuality is a choice according to you...would it not make more sense to only have sex with females to reproduce, and otherwise have sex with men?Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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Not quite.So anything that given time and some help will become sentient and human should be given the full rights and protections that humans enjoy even if it doesn't possess any sentience at the moment?
First of all, the unborn child is human from conception onwards, as the child of human parents.
Secondly, I define personhood as the capacity to attain sentience, so the child is already a person at conception, rather than becoming a person afterwards,Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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Gay marriage wasn't an issue then... you can't really compare the two.I asked "What about Clintion, he signed the Defense of Marriage Act"Comment
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But you're not the only one involved here.Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
No, because I also believe that the two become one flesh. Monogamy is antithetical to switch hitting.
Would you recommend teenagers have sex with others of their own gender until they are ready to have a baby?
Think of the non-existant lives we'll be saving!
On the other hand, is it really any different? Abstinance kills potential people just as much as abortions do, if not more.
Christian murderers.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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So, anything with the capacity to attain sentience is a person then? You just need something with that potential, you are saying?Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Not quite.
First of all, the unborn child is human from conception onwards, as the child of human parents.
Secondly, I define personhood as the capacity to attain sentience, so the child is already a person at conception, rather than becoming a person afterwards,
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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No, because the two become one flesh.But you're not the only one involved here.
Would you recommend teenagers have sex with others of their own gender until they are ready to have a baby?
Right. That's why I advocate it because it kills unborn children as they are developing in their mother's womb.On the other hand, is it really any different? Abstinance kills potential people just as much as abortions do, if not more.
Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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This is absurd. You can't compare "potential people" with a real fetus. You are not killing anything if there isn't even any conception to begin with. But if there is conception and a real growing fetus is developping and you kill it, that's obviously murder.Originally posted by Asher
On the other hand, is it really any different? Abstinance kills potential people just as much as abortions do, if not more.
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"Comment
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Not really 'potential' but capacity, in the sense the bucket is there, and has just began to fill.So, anything with the capacity to attain sentience is a person then? You just need something with that potential, you are saying?
The bucket is the person, not the water in the bucket.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!Comment
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They're both not people. Fair game to me. They're both potential people at varying stages, but both potential people nonetheless...Originally posted by The diplomat
This is absurd. You can't compare "potential people" with a real fetus.
The difference here relies on your religious interpretation of life, and nothing more.
For you, life begins when conception occurs. For science, and for me, life begins when sentience occurs..."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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Kenobi's bar was "potential for sentience", which includes sperm and an egg that haven't yet come together.Originally posted by The diplomat
This is absurd. You can't compare "potential people" with a real fetus. You are not killing anything if there isn't even any conception to begin with. But if there is conception and a real growing fetus is developping and you kill it, that's obviously murder.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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