I debate a college Democrat.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because he gives women the liberty to choose?

If people don't consider 1st and 2nd trimester fetus' as human (which they aren't), then your argument fails.

Why is an unborn child at 25 weeks not considered a person, while an unborn child at 26 weeks should be considered one.

And even if you only consider a third trimester unborn child to be a person, then Kerry is still weak on civil liberties.

For starters, he voted against the ban on Partial birth abortions, that are performed throughout the 3rd trimester.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why is an unborn child at 25 weeks not considered a person, while an unborn child at 26 weeks should be considered one.

And even if you only consider a third trimester unborn child to be a person, then Kerry is still weak on civil liberties.

For starters, he voted against the ban on Partial birth abortions, that are performed throughout the 3rd trimester.

They're really biting today!

As for your question: hint: brain development.

[SpencerH]

Asher:

A human fetus isnt human? Interesting.

[Ben Kenobi]

The best way to debate with people like Ben is to understand that he's been brainwashed as a child and has no hope of ever being rational or debating logically, or even making sense.

Uh, I only became a Christian in February of 2001.

So your argument is not only an ad-hominem, it is wrong.

[Ben Kenobi]

As for your question: hint: brain development.

So show me. What is so special wrt brain development that occurs in that one week?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Uh, I only became a Christian in February of 2001.

So your argument is not only an ad-hominem, it is wrong.

You were a mennonite...

Asher:

A human fetus isnt human? Interesting.

A fetus without a brain is not a human. Similarly, once you remove the brain of a person, they are no longer human (they have no life).

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So show me. What is so special wrt brain development that occurs in that one week?

They really are biting today!

A trimester is a week in Ben's world?

[Harry Tuttle]

Shi, I used to have those argument in college too...


...then I took over the College Democrat office and made my pothead roommate their Chairman.

Game, set, match. Muhahahahahaha!

[Ben Kenobi]

You were a mennonite...

After I came to University. I became a Mennonite in 2001. I am still a Mennonite.

Sure, I grew up on a farm, but my folks aren't Mennonites.

A fetus without a brain is not a human. Similarly, once you remove the brain of a person, they are no longer human (they have no life).

Their species remain the same. A human corpse does not change the species, even after death.

So, if the infant is human, and the parents are humans, why should the unborn child not also be considered human?

Finally, have you ever seen any information on fetal development? A 25 week old fetus has a functioning brain.

She can even survive outside the womb!

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Asher

A fetus without a brain is not a human. Similarly, once you remove the brain of a person, they are no longer human (they have no life).

OK. You base humanity on brain function or is it a matter of actually possessing the organ itself?

If brain function, is there a 'passing level'?

If anatomy, then you would say that a human who is 'brain dead' but possesses a brain is still a human?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Their species remain the same. A human corpse does not change the species, even after death.

So, if the infant is human, and the parents are humans, why should the unborn child not also be considered human?

Because the unborn child is not sentient.

The very definition of human involves the term "highly-developed brain".

Finally, have you ever seen any information on fetal development? A 25 week old fetus has a functioning brain.

Not to the level of consciousness and sentient life.

She can even survive outside the womb!

Go encourage women to give birth at 25 weeks then. And don't hook them up to any devices that simulate the womb.

[Asher]

Originally posted by SpencerH
OK. You base humanity on brain function or is it a matter of actually possessing the organ itself?

If brain function, is there a 'passing level'?

Yes, third trimester.

If anatomy, then you would say that a human who is 'brain dead' but possesses a brain is still a human?

If they're in a vegetative state with no hope of coming out of it, then I don't consider them to be human anymore. It's artificially surviving cadaver.

[Ben Kenobi]

The very definition of human involves the term "highly-developed brain".

Again, where do you draw the line. Are some people with higher brain function to be considered more of a person than those without?

Not to the level of consciousness and sentient life.

If the child can survive outside the womb, then you are really saying that we should also be able to kill infants, because they have less brain function than adults.

Go encourage women to give birth at 25 weeks then. And don't hook them up to any devices that simulate the womb.

Most women prefer to have their babies as healthy as possible.

Some actually love their children.

[Asher]

My bad, it's 2nd trimester where they become sentient.

I support 1st trimester abortions only, then.

[Ben Kenobi]

If they're in a vegetative state with no hope of coming out of it,

Why include this disclaimer?