I debate a college Democrat.

[Shi Huangdi]

I was at a Rock the Vote Party tonight, and I saw that the VP of the University of Pittsburgh College Dems was there. He had on a label saying "Ask me about civil rights!" So I did and asked about Kerry on civil rights. He asked me what specifically I meant. So I asked "Is Kerry for or against Civil Rights?"

He said that Kerry was for it, and said that bush was horrible on issues relating to GLBT, minorities. I didn't hear the "GLBT" part at first, so I asked him what he said. He repeated "GLBT", and said that BUsh had been the most hateful president ever towards homosexuals. I asked "What about Clintion, he signed the Defense of Marriage Act" Then this other College Democrat comes up and said "Oh yeah, well Bush supports the Federal Marriage Amendment!!" I pointed out to him that the President has no say on Constitutional Amendments, that it is a matter for Congress and the State Legislatures. He said "Ya, well he is influential in getting people to support it" I asked him to provide evidence, but he kept BAMing the same point. I asked him to show me one person who Bush swayed into supporting the FMA who didn't support it previously. At this point he started to get mad at me, called me a fool, and walked away.

I was later around a friend of mine, and this person comes back and asks if he thought the President swayed people towards supporting the FMA. He was like "Ya, I guess". He yelled at me "SEE!". So I asked him again for him to support his statement that the President was swaying people into supporting the FMA. He then yelled at me" I don't care what you think, I care what he thinks!(pointing to my friend). He then stormed away.

Oh well.

[Bosh]

Well Bush doesn't necessarily sway people, but he does have the power to keep it on the table.

If anything its more of an attempt to shore up Bush support among poorer social conservatives than a real attempt to ammend the constitution, it'd never get the support of 3/4 of the Legislatures.

[Spiffor]

Bush has a strong symbolic role as the President of the US. He is instrumental in the agenda-setting, and he is instrumental in defining the terms of the debate. Besides, thanks to his position as leader, he is likely to sway people to his views (those people who think they must "be united behind one leader").

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Bush has a strong symbolic role as the President of the US. He is instrumental in the agenda-setting, and he is instrumental in defining the terms of the debate. Besides, thanks to his position as leader, he is likely to sway people to his views (those people who think they must "be united behind one leader").

It's a good thing that we have French people on our forum, so that they can explain to us the intricacies of our political system and how the formation of political beliefsin this country goes.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
It's a good thing that we have French people on our forum, so that they can explain to us the intricacies of our political system and how the formation of political beliefsin this country goes.

And what was wrong in what I just wrote?

[Asher]

Shi, I think he was well in his place to call you a fool if you think the President has no influence over the people in his party.

[CygnusZ]

Originally posted by Spiffor

And what was wrong in what I just wrote?

You're totally correct. The President has tremendous power in rallying votes for policy preferences and he can use the bully pulpit to set the agenda. The President may not have a vote on the floor, but he is for all intents and purposes a super-legislator, capable of changing outcomes on both the federal and state level.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


It's a good thing that we have French people on our forum, so that they can explain to us the intricacies of our political system and how the formation of political beliefsin this country goes.

Article II, Sec 3
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient;

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by CygnusZ
You're totally correct.

That can't be.


I'm French

[Shi Huangdi]

On a serious note, it's most likely in most cases people support the President because they are opposed to gay marriage, rather then the other way around with people oppposing gay marriage because of the President. If you ask someone why the oppose gay marriage, they'll likely say it's because of their religious or other philosophical beliefs. On issues such as tax policy it's quite possible the Pres has a great deal of influence, but on emotional "gut" issues such as gay marriage that are relatively easy to understand, it seems unlikely he would sway too many people.

But in any case I think you would be able to see from my "Is Kerry for or against Civil Rights?" I was more playing around in that case

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by CygnusZ


You're totally correct. The President has tremendous power in rallying votes for policy preferences and he can use the bully pulpit to set the agenda. The President may not have a vote on the floor, but he is for all intents and purposes a super-legislator, capable of changing outcomes on both the federal and state level.

The FMA came up on the bequest of Congress on it's own rather then through the President pushing it. It's more of a case of the President saying OK to it to avoid pissing off his base rather then trying to actually influence anyone towards it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Bush has a strong symbolic role as the President of the US. He is instrumental in the agenda-setting, and he is instrumental in defining the terms of the debate. Besides, thanks to his position as leader, he is likely to sway people to his views (those people who think they must "be united behind one leader").

Bingo. To think Bush's support for an Amendment to Ban Homosexual Marriage has no impact is to be bordering on the naive.

[Saras]

Dude, you have some seriously f*cked-up democrats

[Fake Boris]

Huangdi, the lesson is: next time you think you've won, double check on Poly.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

In reality Bush has oflate come out and said he support civil unions just not redefining marriage.

Already the religous right has gotten their panties in a bunch over how Bush has let them down.