The War on Poverty: The American Way

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kidicious
What responsibility is it of an individual when his or her rent increases?

In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Spiffor

In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

This one I don't so much disagree with.

Here's some responsibilities that I don't agree with that have been presented on this thread.

1) Move out of California.
2) Don't get married and have children.
3) Quit college.
4) Work a second and third job.
5) Quit your internet connection.
6) Move to an even more dilapitated shanty.

If individuals have to do these things to survive I don't call that individual personal responsibility. I call that lack of social responsibility. I call that class warfare when several posters here have called me lazy whinney and moronic for not doing those things when I shouldn't have to.

[Kidlicious]

And they complain about being called fascists.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Spiffor

In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

I completely agree.

Here is a simple proposal (well, actually not simple, masively ambitious, but simple to explain):

The government should guarantee 3 things:
Basic adequate housing for all (this emplies public transport as well to get anywhere)
Basic Healthcare for all
An Education up to college level
Nutrition for all.

Every individual would be entitled to a basic home or apartment, a basket of staple foods to live and basic healthcare (covering checkup, dentist checkups, basic occular care and so forth). everyone could work to have better than this, a better nicer home, more gadgets, toys, car, whatever- and the government would do nothing to provide anything beyond these things called basic needs. Everyone would be free to set up businesses to provide these extras, free to get rich and whatever, but again, the basics for each person need to be met.

So people are free to aquire capital and mess around, and in the end are even more free, because they are free from the crushing burden of lacking basic needs.

[DanS]

However, US planning and zoning has messed things up by imposing artificial caps on how much housing can be built, and where it can be built. With this sort of scarcity, prices naturally rise.

This is true overall, but you would have to look at Kid's living area to see how much this has impacted him (or not, as I suspect). Also, simple things like building codes that mandate a certain general blueprint probably impact the situation more than planning and zoning.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DanS


This is true overall, but you would have to look at Kid's living area to see how much this has impacted him (or not, as I suspect). Also, simple things like building codes that mandate a certain general blueprint probably impact the situation more than planning and zoning.

You have to look at my living area? Man, you really have no idea do you?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Yeah, I can tranfer, but you always lose units. Sometimes a lot.

Even within the UCal system? Does the university have married or family housing?

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Spiffor

In this case, society should provide basic housing services (public housing) that the poor can afford. If the society does so (which I strongly doubt it does in California), it's individual responsibility to choose private housing over public one.

Fully agree, I have long been a proponent for replacing our Welfare system of stipends and checks with a work for sustenance program.

Any and all Americans are guaranteed housing, clothing, and food in return for a 40 hours of community service (picking up trash, other community/government work).

Then if they want more they can get another job to earn spendible money they can do what they want with.

[Arrian]

He didn't lose $5000 gambling, fellas. He started a thread where he contemplated taking $5000 (which he apparently had available) and using it to gamble & make money that way. The premise of the thread was "beating the system." He apparently never did that, so I assume he still has the 5 grand.

Anyway, in order to give any truely useful advice, we would have to know more about your situation, and I honestly don't think that's info you would/should give out to strangers (your income, your wife's income (if any),your rent, where you live, etc).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

GF - I like that idea.

-Arrian

[chequita guevara]

The problem as I see it in this thread is that Kid has the money, he just doesn't have the income. So he's getting nailed on finding a new place cuz he doesn't have the future prespects for paying rent.

Affordable housing is in a crisis situation for lower income people in the United States. It's not that there's a housing shortage. It's that there's a shortage of affordable housing. Unfortunately, in a free-ish market, supply and demand will dictate the price of housing, and since the government is not enforcing or creating affordable housing for the poor, the poor are getting screwed. Everywhere, low income housing is being gentrified.

Many poor families are having to double or triple up for housing, which can cause other sorts of problems, including having the county or state take your children away. Others live in areas that aren't safe for human habitation. Others live in cars or campgrounds.

People should not have to live like this. Kid shouldn't be forced to chose between finishing college and being homeless. A humane society doesn't force people to make that choice. Nor does it force one to have to forgoe doing homework in order to work.

Sadly, I've known plenty of people who were forced to quit school in order to pay rent. And they've never been able to go back to college. Not only does the individual lose out, but society also loses out, since the more educated a person is, the higher their income level and greater their contribution to society tends to be. But this is America, so **** society and **** myself if someone else's "personal responsibility" is somehow minimized.

[GePap]

That sysem GF proposes is essentially a feudal tax system- servcices granted for service to the Lord.

It is also ripe for abuse.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Shush, peasant! Now be quiet and prepare to be repressed!

[Arrian]

Che,

It's difficult to know if you comments really apply to Kid's situation, because of course we don't know his exact situation (there are varying degrees of "poor" as I'm sure you know). Most of us in this thread just picked up on his general whininess and went from there.

-Arrian

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Why is that your business? Do you tell other people when to get married and have children? I think you should mind your own business.

It is our business to tell you your are a an improvident fool to aquire a family to support (or other large expeses) before you can support them, and a whiney ass to complain about the economic cosquence of your bad choices and weakness, and that you deserve your poverty and misery.