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Originally posted by Sava
yeah but the New Testament is kind of touchy-feely lovey dovey... but don't worry, I think Christianity is just as evil as Islam.
The Apocalypse is part of the NT.
"The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
Who got it from Ethiopian Christians. The Ethiopians were the first group to cultivate coffee plants and to begin drinking the crushed and brewed beans.
That is actually a controversial claim and not shared by all historians. What they do agree on is that it first became popular in Arabia in the 13th Century
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
What about Native Americans before 1492 and everyone who lived before Jesus Christ? They didn't know about Jesus.
Before the coming of Christ? That presumes that he did not exist before he was born of Mary.
John 8:54-8
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.
Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
Are they in hell just because they never knew about him?
You should really peruse through Romans.
Romans 4:16
"Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all."
See Christianity is bull**** because supposedly all you need to get into heaven is faith. So Hitler could just have faith in Jesus and still go to heaven. Sorry, but that's too much of a loophole.
Are you any better than Hitler?
The correct answer to religion is simple. We don't know. Nobody living, and nobody who has ever lived, knows if there is a God.
Christians argue that they have evidence that God came to Earth as a man, not mere prophecy.
So all religions... Judaism, Islam, Christianity... they all are works of fiction created by humans. And thus, shouldn't be believed in.
I agree with you. If they were made by man, they should not be believed. But how would one ascertain whether a religion was constructed by God, or by man?
Scouse Git (2)La Fayette Adam SmithSolomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
BTW the BBC has a great article about a Pakistani born muslim woman who lives in the US. She is causing an uproar in the local muslim community by daring to ask that women be allowed to walk through the front door of a mosque instead of being forced to walk through the back door like some black servant during segrigation.
Naturally, large numbers of bigoted people are opposing even this slight increase in women's rights.
If God created me, he created my critical thinking mind. Surely a religion that is true would be written in such a way to satisfy the questions of the critical mind.
True, but also consider. If a religion were truly made by God, would it be possible to understand everything therein? We have our limitations, and there are limitations to the extent of our reason.
If you let me I will try to show why these scraps of 2000 year old paper ought to be construed as evidence in favour of the claims of Christ.
First of all, do you believe in the existence of Caesar?
Scouse Git (2)La Fayette Adam SmithSolomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
Who got it from Ethiopian Christians. The Ethiopians were the first group to cultivate coffee plants and to begin drinking the crushed and brewed beans.
That is actually a controversial claim and not shared by all historians. What they do agree on is that it first became popular in Arabia in the 13th Century
Ethiopian highlands are the only place I've ever heard of where the wild native coffee plants naturally grow. It would be hard to have coffee without coffee plants. It makes sense that the people nearest the coffee plants would learn of the plants characterists first and that it would spread from there.
Christians argue that they have evidence that God came to Earth as a man, not mere prophecy.
what evidence? 2000 year old stories isn't enough proof for me.
I agree with you. If they were made by man, they should not be believed. But how would one ascertain whether a religion was constructed by God, or by man?
that being the case, I believe it to be prudent for a religion to be proven the work of god before assuming it to be true. Nothing short of meeting God would be proof enough for me. And no offense, but Christianity is weak when it comes to offering proof. I think Thomas Aquinas is the best you guys got, and his "proof" of the existence of God is pretty weak.
The good thing about the bible is that most Christians do not see it as the literal word of god. Instead the bible is a collection of writtings by learned men who were inspired by god and/or who are recording the teachings of men such as Jesus who were touched by god.
Since men wrote it the bible is subject to the weaknesses of man. Man who is capable of misunderstanding god.
That's basically what I meant in my first post when I argued that Christianity seems to have an easier time than islam "historicizing" parts of the scripture.
But what you say is not at the core of Christianity. Actually, most churches hold that the bible has been written by men being kind of possessed by the Holy Ghost (at least Lutherans do so, but I guess they're not alone). Thus disregarding parts of the scripture as being "historical" or "result of fallible men" is hardly consistent with what the churches say. It's not consistent, it's rather arbitrary.
"The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
"Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.
Ceasar is a historical figure based upon varifiable archiological evidence. I don't believe anyone has ever found archiological evidence which proves the exists of any diety.
Ethiopian highlands are the only place I've ever heard of where the wild native coffee plants naturally grow. It would be hard to have coffee without coffee plants. It makes sense that the people nearest the coffee plants would learn of the plants characterists first and that it would spread from there.
You're right in that it came from Ethiopia, but from animists not Christians. The highlands weren't converted till later on (the 12th-15th centuries).
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
I agree with you. If they were made by man, they should not be believed. But how would one ascertain whether a religion was constructed by God, or by man?
Come on man. You are making the claim therefor the burden of proof is upon you. I could tell everyone that you are a murder but unless I provide some proof that you are a murder then it's all just a story isn't it?
Come on man. You are making the claim therefor the burden of proof is upon you. I could tell everyone that you are a murder but unless I provide some proof that you are a murder then it's all just a story isn't it?
True.
But the parameters for the proof need to be set in order for me to proceed further. I accept the burden, but everyone must decide for themselves what consitutes proper proof.
Scouse Git (2)La Fayette Adam SmithSolomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
You're right in that it came from Ethiopia, but from animists not Christians. The highlands weren't converted till later on (the 12th-15th centuries).
You sure about that Ramo?
Christians have been in Ethiopia far longer than in many other places in Africa.
Scouse Git (2)La Fayette Adam SmithSolomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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