"Isn't she a little young?"

[Elok]

In related news, Bush just announced plans to "restore freedom" to Mexico, the Netherlands, and Zimbabwe.

[Ben Kenobi]

10-12, 12-14 - its all arbitrary.

Then I suggest you try it for yourself, and see if things are so 'arbitrary'. I don't think the father of these girls would think these things so 'arbitrary'.

Dr. Strangelove is the only one who really brings any insight here into what it would be like to be sexually active at that age, for the women.

If you really had any respect for these girls, you would wait for them until they grow up.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Then I suggest you try it for yourself, and see if things are so 'arbitrary'. I don't think the father of these girls would think these things so 'arbitrary'.

Dr. Strangelove is the only one who really brings any insight here into what it would be like to be sexually active at that age, for the women.

If you really had any respect for these girls, you would wait for them until they grow up.

I agree with BK on this one.


lBut then -- anyone who has a good sense of decency would, considering that pedophilia is nothing but exploitation of children -- even when they do consent.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by MrFun
But then -- anyone who has a good sense of decency would, considering that pedophilia is nothing but exploitation of children -- even when they do consent.

Peadophilia is the attraction to girls who are underdeveloped. What Whaleboy is saying at most is that when they are physically developed is where the age of consent is, and as such, is saying peadophilia should still be illegal, as it is expoitation. No-one's advocating peadophilia, just that someone younger than 18 should be allowed to choose whether or not they're ready for sex. IMHO 14, a la Canada, is the most sensible age, but I can understand why keeping it at 16 (as it is here) is sensible. 18 seems stupid to me, in that it must be broken by so many people to be nonsense. Also, saying that a 17 year old, who have to decide things like where they're going to college, what they're going to do with their life, etc, doesn't have the right to have their own private life, seems a bit much to me.

[Ben Kenobi]

But then -- anyone who has a good sense of decency would

That's nice of you to say, Mr. Fun.

[Ben Kenobi]

Drogue:

What Whaleboy is saying at most is that when they are physically developed is where the age of consent is

10-12, 12-14 - its all arbitrary.

I know Whaleboy's your friend, Drogue, and he should appreciate you defending him.

Still, it doesn't erase the fact that he is advocating pedophilia.

[MrFun]

Of course, when it comes to other things, BK, well . . . .


I won't say anything more.

[Drogue]

His comments earlier, about 10-12, or 12-14, was about when development takes place. Peadophilia is the specific attraction to people who are undeveloped. He was arguing that at that age, they are developed. He may be (and indeed, is) wrong, but his argument was not to allow sex with undeveloped people, hence not peadophilia.

[Whaleboy]

BK: I wasn't advocating paedophilia, I'd like to smash in the face of people who want to prey on kids, as the oldest brother of four its something of an instinct for me, but I don't let that get in the way about what I'm saying in the conceptual sense. As for those numbers, I was plucking figures out of the air, not advocating the use of those figures as a reasonable limit to when one should have sex, instead the age where the first girls are sexually ready, which is the baseline for the law, in conjunction with an individual assessment system.

Then I suggest you try it for yourself, and see if things are so 'arbitrary'. I don't think the father of these girls would think these things so 'arbitrary'.

I don't care abotu their fathers (seriously it's a problem I have) it is their interests that solely matter here.

If you really had any respect for these girls, you would wait for them until they grow up.

I do, but this is an issue of what should be the law, what one should do as an individual is do as you have said, but that's not consistent enough to work as a law in my opinion. Try to see the distinction.

With a "yes " answer, then you have the problem of implementation. The clearest, simplest and most practical method is to pick an arbitrary age limit. While nothing magical happens on the day a person attainst that age, hopefully the age is one where most persons are better able to handle sexual matters.

But that sucks!!

[Kuciwalker]

To quote Last Conformist: Reality has the disturbing tendency to not conform to what should be

[Ben Kenobi]

I do, but this is an issue of what should be the law, what one should do as an individual is do as you have said, but that's not consistent enough to work as a law in my opinion. Try to see the distinction.

If what we should do as individuals is not what the law should be, that requires some justification. Usually the law reflects and reinforces behaviour that we believe we should do.

[Dr Strangelove]

Wouldn't the best guide regarding the determination of the legal age of consent be the general historical experience with the outcome of sexual activity at the age groups in question? As I said above, the outcome of a 12 year old's pregnancy are generally pretty dismal, for the girl, the girl's parents, and the baby. Frankly, in my experience this is pretty much true up through the teens. When a teenaged girl has a baby almost always everyone involved suffers, so why let it happen? I'd be interested to learn what the results are in other countries, like the Netherlands. In the Netherlands what generally happens to young teens (13 to 16) who have babies in terms of finishing school, career, future income, and mental health in comparison with other girls? What happens to their babies in terms of placement, scholastic performance, trouble with the law, and etc?

[Dis]

I see no reason to lower it to 18. with the possible exception if they are 2 years within your age.

Getting pregnant at less than 18 has horrible consequences. Of course getting pregnant at 18 isn't so great either. Because you have no training or college education.

But until they say you are legally an adult at 16, I see no reason they should be allowed to make adult decisions.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drogue
Also, saying that a 17 year old, who have to decide things like where they're going to college, what they're going to do with their life, etc, doesn't have the right to have their own private life, seems a bit much to me.

Over half of the people in college don't know what's going on and have no idea what to do in their lives.

[Kuciwalker]

Only over half?