"Isn't she a little young?"

[Solver]

There are more and more problems with teachers like that here. Worst of all probably being obsessive PE teachers. Now, I'd love to strangle those myself as well.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Yup


'In Virginia during 1999 and 2000, 219 births to girls age 13 and 14 were fathered by men over the age of 18, according to the 2002 Virginia Department of Health report “Estimating the Incidence of Statutory Rape in Virginia.” '

Blame McPaper for the ambiguity.

The population of Virginia is about 6.5 million, which is a little less than 2.5% of the total US population. Extrapolating to the total US population would give an estimate of about 9000 births/ year for the US as a whole. I'd also like to point out that a sizeable portion of the young teens getting pregnant get abortions. Some girls get just palin lucky and don't get pregnant.

I see at least one of them in my clinic almost every year. By and large they make truely horrible parents. In the end most of their children wind up being raised by the mom's parents.

[Solver]

In the end most of their children wind up being raised by the mom's parents.

... which is one of the best possible outcomes.

[Ben Kenobi]

wasn't justifying that, I was saying that part of the reason men are attracted to younger women may be due to the fact that women in late teens / early twenties are at the peak of their ability to bear children, which may form part of that our reaction to that wonderful chemical testosterone.

Eh, then I wholly agree.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
He didn't say that. He said ideally one does not take the subjective opinions of the victim into consideration when trying to objectively determine the guilt of an individual and the proportionate/appropriate punishment (sic justice as opposed to vigilantism). You have failed to provide a reason why a situation like this precludes a fair trial, where the result is justice and not some petty gun-toting revenge.

You have failed to analyse the situation like a real human being. I'm sure if you are ever in a situation like this that you will be so quick to do the time to do the legal research and analysis.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
presumably the young boy didnt get pregnant, though.

That's what you think

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Drogue
219 teenage pregnancies in a country of over 250 million and it deserves massive publicity? I'd consider murder, or rape, or even speeding (which causes far more deaths than that) to be far more deserving of public money than that. And how many of those pregnancies could be helped without a sex education preaching abstanence above all else.

That's actually incorrect. The sex education in Virginia talks about all sorts of contraceptives. They just add the qualifier "only abstinance (sp?) is the 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy/STD's".

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
You people are generalising a hell of a lot. Whether or not you are capable of deciding is a matter of individual disposition, not state-imposed limits and lines in the sand,

But those lines have to be drawn, because it's impossible for multiple reasons to psychologically classify everyone as "ready" or "unready" for sexual intercourse. It's that same reason there's a line before which you cannot vote, or drive.

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Re: "Isn't she a little young?"

Originally posted by Tingkai
What's next? An ad campaign saying: "Stop, she's your daughter!"

That's West Virginia

[Whaleboy]

You have failed to analyse the situation like a real human being. I'm sure if you are ever in a situation like this that you will be so quick to do the time to do the legal research and analysis.

If you consider a "real human being" to act upon his testicles as opposed to his consideration, then perhaps you are correct. I think that if we are talking about justice, what constitutes a crime, what is consistent or inconsistent in a philosophical or legal sense, then we have to use consideration and attempt to suppress our primal urges to destroy those who trample on our virginal territory. I don't think that people with a hymen obsession should be involved with child law since their obsessiveness and "protective" urges have more in common with paedophiles anyway.

But those lines have to be drawn, because it's impossible for multiple reasons to psychologically classify everyone as "ready" or "unready" for sexual intercourse. It's that same reason there's a line before which you cannot vote, or drive.

But driving or voting is dependant more or less on other people. With consenting sex, it is dependant upon only two parties, who choose to use a perfectly natural function of their bodies. Two conclusions are that one is ready when one says one is ready, and thus the age of consent should be reduced to a reasonable figure for the start of puberty, say between 10 and 12, or it is decided on an individual basis, like a driving licence, though that is far too totalitarian for my taste.

That's West Virginia

The beauty of relativism

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Whaleboy


Two conclusions are that one is ready when one says one is ready, and thus the age of consent should be reduced to a reasonable figure for the start of puberty, say between 10 and 12, or it is decided on an individual basis, like a driving licence, though that is far too totalitarian for my taste.

Why would you lower the age to the point of the start of puberty. Puberty is not an instantaneous process, but instead involves a fairly predictable pattern of growth over a period of 5 to 7 years. At age 10 most girls may exhibit the very beginning of breast development and a few early stage, downy pubic hairs, but the internal organs and genetalia are little more developed than a younger girls. Even early developers, unless they have a hormonal condition have little internal development at this age. It is exceedingly rare for a girl to become fertile at 10. You can really hurt a girl by attempting to get your rocks off with her at this age.
By age 12 most girls will have some significant breast development, modest curly pubic hair, and the beginnings of vaginal, labial, clitoral and internal development, but most are far from physically mature. Menstruation often begins at this age, but actual fertility often occurs 6 to 12 months later. For most girls at this age intercourse with an adult or older teen would be painful. A few girls at 12 are indeed further along in development and are fertile and developed enough to accomodate a man, but with discomfort. As I said earlier, throughout my career I've known girls who got pregnant at age 12. None of them enjoyed the experience, many were emotionally scarred whether or not the act was consensual. Some go right back to being sexually active after giving birth even though it's not pleasent for them because it's the only role they know. I wish that some of you could sit down and talk to one of these kids talk about their premature sexual experience and their lifestyle choices. The emptiness within them would haunt you. It is very sad to meet a child-prisoner, even one who can't express the desire to be freed.

[Kuciwalker]

But driving or voting is dependant more or less on other people. With consenting sex, it is dependant upon only two parties, who choose to use a perfectly natural function of their bodies. Two conclusions are that one is ready when one says one is ready, and thus the age of consent should be reduced to a reasonable figure for the start of puberty, say between 10 and 12, or it is decided on an individual basis, like a driving licence, though that is far too totalitarian for my taste.

Physical maturity is different from mental maturity.

[Dis]

exactly what I was going to say kucinich.

Actually I have said it way early in this thread.

Kids today are not mature. They never have any responsibility. They never have to do any work. This was not the case in the 19th century for example. Kids matured mentally much faster. They were required to work, take responsibility and think of how their actions affect their future life together. ie- if she gets pregnant, then they will have to marry and he will have to support her.

Kids today don't even have to take out the trash. I've seen 20 year olds that still act like kids. You would never see this back in the day.

Kids just are not capable of consenting to an adult. Period. If anything, the age of consent should be raised to 21. Just because kids are smart and can run computers, doesn't mean they understand consequences of their actions. I see this all the time, adults think kids grow up real fast just because they can operate a computer

Now we come to the crux of the matter.

Attraction. Because girls are maturing faster physically (some have theorized that growth hormones in cattle is causing this), the attraction will always be there. I admit to seeing some girls who I think were underage that were damn hot. But I would never act on these urges. I see actresses who are under 18 who I know I'm attracted to. But I would never have sex with them, even if offered (not likely )

Now there is some new science that says the part of the brain that controls impulse is not as strong in some humans as others. Some people literally cannot control themselves. They have no impulse control. New age liberalism want to set these people free from jail because of their "disability". While I do believe they do lack impulse control, letting them loose in society seems irresponsible. The fact is, you could make a case nearly all criminals lack impulse control. Only a small percentage are truelly evil.

Should we let these people loose in society to do as they please?

The fact is, society is set up in such a way to seperate the unwanteds from what we consider normal. We simply do not want people like this in our society. This is what prison is for. It has nothing to do with deterrence or rehabilitation. It is simply a means to isolate an unwanted portion of the population from the rest of society. And I support this. I do not want these people in normal society, even if they do technically have a disability. We simply cannot have anarchy with a population the size it is today.

[Last Conformist]

Because girls are maturing faster physically (some have theorized that growth hormones in cattle is causing this)

Swedish studies indicate that artificial lighting may be involved. Electrification appears to coincide fairly neatly in time with a fall in average female onset of puberty age, which moreover pretty much eliminated the difference between the north and the south of the country - before electrification, girls in the far north (where you get less sunlight) typically hit puberty about half a year later than those in the south.

[Kuciwalker]

Wow.