To be "cultured"

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Indeed, a healthy heaping of the classical music masterpieces revered today were not popular or even considered "good" when written. Bach's compositions were unsung for a hundred years after his death. Beethoven's later works were critically reviled and caused head scratching with audiences, but today are considered his greatest works.

There's a great book I have called the "Lexicon of Musical Invective," which is a compilation of negative critical and popular reviews of famous composer's works. It's a great read, especially when the critics are spouting off about how Beethoven's 9th was a jumbled cacophony of unintelligible nonsense what would be forgotten even before Beethoven died. Hee!

Exactly Boris! This once again supports my contention, that snobbery springs from generational issues. Artists and musicians are always reviled and misunderstood by the current generation in power, and it takes a generation to bring these artforms to a point where people can snobbishly defend them as high culture (or conversely appreciate the true genious of them).

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Well that's a nice little strawman here.

Having the most experience is not the same as running the show. There are other factors involved. Things like energy, drive, determination, just for starters.

But even you conceded that people who are older have more experience. Hence this "ageism" is mostly rubbish.

I was responding to the strawman put forward by Caligasta. If you want to have a respectable position, I encourage you to actually see what I was responding to instead of talking out of your arse.

Never did I argue that youth don't have less experience. I argue that less experience doesn't equal incompetence, inferior reason, or less wisdom than adults. But this is totally besides the point of this thread.

[Ben Kenobi]

I, for one, see no reason to treat uncultured barbarians like actual human beings.

So much for communism benefiting the masses, eh?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Flame away? I haven't hurled any insults have I?

This is an insult:

"OzzyKP -

You'll understand when you grow up...seriously."

The spirit of it was condescending, the intent of it was insulting.

Not really. The elderly generally tend to lose some of their mental abilities. It's a natural part of the aging process that everyone recognises.

Mental abilities are seperate from experience. You were making a point entirely about experience. If this is a strawman, then admit it now, because if its mental abilities you want, then by all means say so. There is no disputing that some of 80 has twice as many experiences as someone who is 40. Its simple math.

Unless you want to argue (and I'd gladly welcome the argument) that the quality of experience of that 40 year old may be superior to the quality of that 80 year old's experience. Of course you can say the exact same thing about a 15 year old vs. a 40 year old as well.

But again, this is off topic for this thread.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Asher

Hello Molly.

Not even close.

"
Most of the modern "cultured" people are pompous *****. I'm cultured, just in a different way than you are. I may not be able to recite the precise weight of any tenor in the past 500 years, but I am more connected to the modern culture than you ever will be.

Your culture of old has been replaced with electronic culture, you can accept that now or you can keep denying it.

Culture is in the eye of the beholder. What I'm cultured in will lead to sizable wealth and happiness, what you're cultured in leads to snobiness and arrogant queens.

Or, perhaps they see poetry for what it is -- an infantile waste of time void of structure, and the meaning is so cryptic that the true intention and true meaning of poems are left to guesswork and thesis writing of overly-paid British scholars at artsy universities who serve no purpose but to tell others what they think an irrelevant work from 400 years ago really means.

Cultured my ass, they're candidates for unemployment and street-life. No wonder so many of them are heavily left-wing, they depend on the real success of others to have a parasitic relationship with society, under the guise of contributing to society's "culture".

I'll tell you one thing -- what people like Bill Gates have done has had far more impact on today's culture than any contemporary poet. In fact, I don't think any contemporary poet has any relevance to today's culture, whatsoever.

FWIW, Molly, it doesn't work well to counter someone's argument about those who pride themselves in being so "cultured" to simply list off a bunch of overrated, ancient works and then laugh that other people don't give a sh*t about them."

'not that what I do is better than others.'

Asher Amnesiac


Umm, I wonder which Canadian chipmunk impersonator that can be, giving us his hierarchy of cultural values?

My 'culture' whatever that is, he states is inferior to his 'culture', because his is supposedly more connected with 'modern culture'. He has yet to accurately portray what my 'culture' supposedly is, but then confusing me with Urban Ranger is probably not a good place to start.

His 'culture' allegedly leads to wealth and happiness, mine leads supposedly, to snobbiness and arrogant queens.

And so on, ad nauseam, in posts full of ludicrous sweeping statements, misrepresentations and opinionated drivel, uncontaminated by the slightest contact with the works being commented upon.

You aren't even consistent in a single post, let alone a single thread.

[monkspider]

The final word on the matter is that this is just another in a long run of Asher's whiny, drama-queen, pity party threads and he should be eternally grateful that someone as cultured as I am took the time to post. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a performance of Goethe's Faust to see.

[Asher]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Not even close.

"
Most of the modern "cultured" people are pompous *****. I'm cultured, just in a different way than you are. I may not be able to recite the precise weight of any tenor in the past 500 years, but I am more connected to the modern culture than you ever will be.

Your culture of old has been replaced with electronic culture, you can accept that now or you can keep denying it.

Culture is in the eye of the beholder. What I'm cultured in will lead to sizable wealth and happiness, what you're cultured in leads to snobiness and arrogant queens.

Or, perhaps they see poetry for what it is -- an infantile waste of time void of structure, and the meaning is so cryptic that the true intention and true meaning of poems are left to guesswork and thesis writing of overly-paid British scholars at artsy universities who serve no purpose but to tell others what they think an irrelevant work from 400 years ago really means.

Cultured my ass, they're candidates for unemployment and street-life. No wonder so many of them are heavily left-wing, they depend on the real success of others to have a parasitic relationship with society, under the guise of contributing to society's "culture".

I'll tell you one thing -- what people like Bill Gates have done has had far more impact on today's culture than any contemporary poet. In fact, I don't think any contemporary poet has any relevance to today's culture, whatsoever.

FWIW, Molly, it doesn't work well to counter someone's argument about those who pride themselves in being so "cultured" to simply list off a bunch of overrated, ancient works and then laugh that other people don't give a sh*t about them."

'not that what I do is better than others.'

Asher Amnesiac


Umm, I wonder which Canadian chipmunk impersonator that can be, giving us his hierarchy of cultural values?

My 'culture' whatever that is, he states is inferior to his 'culture', because his is supposedly more connected with 'modern culture'. He has yet to accurately portray what my 'culture' supposedly is, but then confusing me with Urban Ranger is probably not a good place to start.

His 'culture' allegedly leads to wealth and happiness, mine leads supposedly, to snobbiness and arrogant queens.

And so on, ad nauseam, in posts full of ludicrous sweeping statements, misrepresentations and opinionated drivel, uncontaminated by the slightest contact with the works being commented upon.

You aren't even consistent in a single post, let alone a single thread.

We have a winner!

I'm not commenting on specific works, you moron.

And you are a snobby, arrogant queen, so I don't see how you're countering my argument.

And that quote is from an old thread, where my only intent was to troll you. It obviously had quite an impact, if you remember it. I had forgotten about it. No wonder you didn't link it, you wanted to make people believe it was from a thread in the context of this one.

[Ben Kenobi]

monkie:

"Culture which smooth the whole world licks, Also unto the devil sticks."

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Actually, Glonkie's right on this. There are different 'cultures'.

Culture is simply a way of ordering one's life in collaboration with others, such that the group shares certain beliefs or ideals expressed by collaboration.

That seems to be an equivocation.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, what word am I equivocating on, UR?

It can't be culture.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I was responding to the strawman put forward by Caligasta. If you want to have a respectable position, I encourage you to actually see what I was responding to instead of talking out of your arse.

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Never did I argue that youth don't have less experience. I argue that less experience doesn't equal incompetence, inferior reason, or less wisdom than adults. But this is totally besides the point of this thread.

How is less experience not the same as less competent or inferior, as far as to that particular task or job is concerned?

Furthermore, wisdom comes from experience, not your rectum.

[Ted Striker]

I think enjoying the humanities, art, classical music, good food, enjoying those for the sake of enjoying life is awesome.

However, I agree with Asher that it's ridiculous to look down upon people because they aren't "cultured."

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Well, what word am I equivocating on, UR?

It can't be culture.

Main Entry: 1cul·ture
Pronunciation: 'k&l-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin cultura, from cultus, past participle
1 : CULTIVATION, TILLAGE
2 : the act of developing the intellectual and moral faculties especially by education
3 : expert care and training
4 a : enlightenment and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training b : acquaintance with and taste in fine arts, humanities, and broad aspects of science as distinguished from vocational and technical skills
5 a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon man's capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes a company or corporation
6 : cultivation of living material in prepared nutrient media; also : a product of such cultivation

It seems to me that Asher and you are mixing up 4a and 5b.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Asher
I'm not commenting on specific works, you moron.

And you are a snobby, arrogant queen, so I don't see how you're countering my argument.

Cut out the insults.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Cut out the insults.

Those were his words, not mine. If he can refer to himself as that, so can I.