Rugby - Swinging Handbags!

[Tamerlin]

Allez, le Stade!
Allez, Toulouse!

[Havak]

I did catch the kick off time in time to see it. Amazing game. I have never seen an opening 25 mins like that still producing a fairly tight result.

As for Stade - the first scrum was solid enough. Half time Wasps lead 13-11. By the time I post tomorrow we will know if Stade's worst enemies made an appearance in the second half.

[Havak]

Wasps 27 Toulouse 20

Just like Harlequins Wasps won with a last gasp try (by Rob Howley).

Tamerlin will be angry - his team failed to convert a significant superiority in possession and territory into points.

Glaws now qualify for Europe through league position so Sale, who lost to them, now get to play us in the wildcard final - how crazy is that - a lucky loser could get into Europe.

Pesonally I hope we crush them and grind them into the twickers turf - Sale don't even deserve to be there.

[Tamerlin]

Wasps 27 - Stade Toulousain 20

To dominate is not to win.

The Stade was unlucky while the Wasps were lucky. That made the difference. Two solid defences and a good game. I am very disappointed because of the way the game has been lost...

[finbar]

I now have digital cable which gives me access to UK Sky TV. I caught their sports report update last night that showed Wasps' first try after half time. Crap Toulouse defence!

[Havak]

Actually what made the difference was more clinical finishing by one side - and a truly bizarre error by the Toulouse fullback at the end that gifted Howley the try.

Is he on the transfer list Tamerlin?

[Havak]

Now we know the truth. Tamerlin only watches the first minute of the matches.

I wonder if he caught the last minute yesterday?

And you'd probably prefer your llama p*ss!

I have eaten there – it’s very good. Wine is wine – but a decent pint of llama p*** is ambrosia.

They should be strung up, those hunting types.

For many thinks – monumental arrogance, blocking the queens highway on a whim – and excessive inbreeding. There is probably more.

I have to confess that I found the S12 final very enjoyable. Although I agree with Finbar that we watched a game of Sevens – and it was a game where both defences were simply shocking – a total contrast in fact to the European finals this weekend where defence was king. At 25 minutes into the game I really thought we were watching the death of Kiwi rugby. It was a remarkable fight back – but the entire Crusaders squad still need their arse kicking for not turning up on time.

His one-handed steal from the Crusaders' lock in the lineout, turning an apparently safe Crusaders' lineout win from their own throw into a turnover, had to be seen to be believed

Was that Thorn or jack he stole from then?

Andrew will probably play him on the wing next season. If he plays lock he will come up against the likes of Jonno, Grewcock, Shaw, Kay and Deacon on a weekly basis – it will be a far more consistent test of his ability in the second row than S12 offered him.

Do you think anyone has told him how many games there are in our season by the way?

The list of culprits apparently includes Bill Young, Jeremy Paul and Stirling Mortlock. I gather George Gregan wasn't part of the sacking gang.

Yes Paul was reported her last week as wanting to move. I have to admit the situation is strange – an S12 winning coach sacked – your Rugby is getting like English soccer for it’s bizarre hirings and firings.

Giffin might get a berth with Worcester or another struggling outfit – no top team wants a lock with a crooked neck who has declared himself ready to retire. Roff on the other hand might see a real bidding war. The best news for Oxford is both guys would qualify for the varsity match!!

With Samo and Bartholomeusz already going, there are going to be some gaps to fill next season.

There will be openings at Toulouse next season – fullback almost certainly.

The French aristocrats of the game gambled hugely this season to retain the crown – their wage bill is estimated at being between 4.5 and 5 million sterling equivalent this year!

Had Montferand won against Quins (and only a last move of the game try prevented that!) Tigers would have been in Europe automatically. As it stands we have to play Sale (who as I say lost their semi to Glaws, who subsequently qualified anyway when Wasps won yesterday)

We have played Sale three times this year – and they beat us three times (no team has ever done that to us before - it is a measure of how serious our early season troubles were). All before the big upheaval and Deano going of course - since when we have not lost a game. The scuttlebutt is the boys want revenge big time.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Wine is wine – but a decent pint of llama p*** is ambrosia.

I have to confess that I found the S12 final very enjoyable. Although I agree with Finbar that we watched a game of Sevens – and it was a game where both defences were simply shocking – a total contrast in fact to the European finals this weekend where defence was king. At 25 minutes into the game I really thought we were watching the death of Kiwi rugby. It was a remarkable fight back – but the entire Crusaders squad still need their arse kicking for not turning up on time.

I don't think I've seen a more powerful, destructive first twenty five minutes. I've seen powerful, destructive first ten minutes, but it just went on and on. That's pretty much the way the Brumbies have played all year - ferocious attack, let defence look after itself. Although Saturday night was a fairly extreme example. As Eddie said this morning, bagging both defences, it bore absolutely no resemblance to Test rugby. Pity Rathbone had his quietest game for the season, you didn't get to see him in operation. But Mark Gerard - the big winger who scored 3 tries - is a good Wallaby chance this season and someone for the long term future. Very talented 21 year old. Yet another Waratahs stuff up. They signed him straight from school at 17 years old and completely neglected him. He got fed up with lack of opportunities and took himself off to Canberra. Another of Nucifora's great pieces of grooming.

And you really have to question Deans' choice to (a) start with Mehtrens on the bench; and (b) leave him there as long as he did. As soon as he appeared, he turned them around.

So I wonder how Ben Blair felt on the flight home?

Was that Thorn or jack he stole from then?

I don't know, but he - whomever it was - should be very embarrassed. A one-handed steal. Samo must have monstrous hands.

Andrew will probably play him on the wing next season. If he plays lock he will come up against the likes of Jonno, Grewcock, Shaw, Kay and Deacon on a weekly basis – it will be a far more consistent test of his ability in the second row than S12 offered him.

Yes, he's incredibly raw as a lock. I don't know that he has the real speed to play wing at a high level. He has incredible speed and mobility for his size but not the sort of high speed a winger needs. He might even make a fairly frightening flanker.

Do you think anyone has told him how many games there are in our season by the way?

I doubt it. I don't even know why he's going. Well, I do. He was offered a lot of money, more than he'd ever dreamed of, and he has a young family. I think he might tire of the grind.

Yes Paul was reported her last week as wanting to move. I have to admit the situation is strange – an S12 winning coach sacked – your Rugby is getting like English soccer for it’s bizarre hirings and firings.

Only at the Brumbies. Player power. Nucifora's behaviour under appalling circumstances has been all class. And the work he has done bringing on the young players - Gerard, Chisolm, Henjak, etc - proves he can coach. Apparently he's had a couple of minor offers from Japan and Italy. I think he'll probably end up back in Queensland. Jeff Miller is yet to prove he can coach at the Reds. And pretty p*ss poor from Jeremy Paul, too, if he does leave. Demand the sacking of the coach, then leave.

Giffin might get a berth with Worcester or another struggling outfit – no top team wants a lock with a crooked neck who has declared himself ready to retire. Roff on the other hand might see a real bidding war. The best news for Oxford is both guys would qualify for the varsity match!!

I wonder whether Joe could fit in studies around full-time rugby over there. He managed it here because he played so much less week-in, week-out rugby. And he's still only 28 or 29. His game on Saturday night was one of his best for a very long time.

There will be openings at Toulouse next season – fullback almost certainly.

Not to mention the single gap in the supporter ranks.

[Havak]

As Eddie said this morning, bagging both defences, it bore absolutely no resemblance to Test rugby

S12 is being increasingly criticised for this isn’t it?

But Mark Gerard - the big winger who scored 3 tries - is a good Wallaby chance this season and someone for the long term future

Another huge fast Aussie winger off the production line – it’s amazing how they keep turning up. I’ll see Rathbone soon enough – he has declared himself for the Wallabies I believe?

And you really have to question Deans' choice to (a) start with Mehtrens on the bench; and (b) leave him there as long as he did.

Out of the wilderness it now looks like the Mouth may yet be back in an AB starting XV? Henry will have been impressed with the structure he gave to Canterbury.

He has incredible speed and mobility for his size but not the sort of high speed a winger needs. He might even make a fairly frightening flanker.

Actually thinking it through Falcons lost both Mark Andrews and Garath Archer this season to retirement (Archer is a year older than Giffin but also crocked). Maybe Andrew really is looking to play him at Lock. That will be fun for me next season then – Lantern jaw versus Bear Fists.

Well, I do. He was offered a lot of money, more than he'd ever dreamed of, and he has a young family. I think he might tire of the grind.

He will certainly tire of the underachieving if not the grind. And the weather. There is a reason Cau Cau chose Agen rather than Falcons – and not just the lack of salary caps in France.

Apparently he's had a couple of minor offers from Japan and Italy.

Career ending moves for the man – try to push him towards Queensland as I would like to see the Reds do something (anything?)

As for Jeremy Paul – never rated him as a player myself but it doesn’t speak highly of his personal qualities either to agitate then leave – just as you say.

I wonder whether Joe could fit in studies around full-time rugby over there.

Methinks he will receive an offer too tempting to refuse. Frankly any of the London clubs would be accessible to him from Oxford – and the west country clubs too. Hmm – Sarries or Glaws I wonder?

Not to mention the single gap in the supporter ranks.

I suspect he will need time – much like I did after the losses to Ulster and Stade Francais this year.
His boys will be back – far too much talent there for them not to be.

Tigers will beat them in next years final at Murrayfield.

I see Eddie has entered the Samo question. If you sign for an S12 franchise you have to be available for the Wallabies too right? So Samo is possibly contracted to Australia this calendar year and might not be released to honour the Falcons contract he has already signed - or to pursue his apparently voiced preference of Fiji/The Islanders. Could get messy?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
S12 is being increasingly criticised for this isn’t it?

I think more people are recognising the reality. It took them long enough. S12 was never designed to be Test rugby. It was designed for a purpose - for marketing, to take rugby to the great unwashed and, hopefully, convert them; and to provide an intermediate step for players between club and Test rugby. S12's whole design - bonus points, et al - means it will always be what it is: a try festival. The downside comes when it leads (a) to bad habits; and (b) people, including players, to equate it with Test rugby. But one thing it certainly has done is raise the rugby profile here, which is a damn fine thing.

Another huge fast Aussie winger off the production line – it’s amazing how they keep turning up. I’ll see Rathbone soon enough – he has declared himself for the Wallabies I believe?

He has. It's why he knocked back the Boks when they came to try to charm him recently. A lot of experts have declared him too. He's very talented. Trouble is, as ever, we have a plethora of talented backs. I won't bother detailing the converse.

Out of the wilderness it now looks like the Mouth may yet be back in an AB starting XV? Henry will have been impressed with the structure he gave to Canterbury.

Bound to have been. Deans has started him on the bench for most of the season. When he was fit. He showed his class every time he came on. This season he has also, strangely, involved himself more than he ever has, taking the ball up, not fleeing to full back as much as he used to. I can see Henry playing him in front of Carlos.

Actually thinking it through Falcons lost both Mark Andrews and Garath Archer this season to retirement (Archer is a year older than Giffin but also crocked). Maybe Andrew really is looking to play him at Lock. That will be fun for me next season then – Lantern jaw versus Bear Fists.

He's not going to get the space he enjoys in S12, but his sheer unpredictability will make him a handful wherever he plays. And he's very, very strong. It will be interesting to see what happens. A one-handed steal from J**** would be fun to see. But see further down in this post.

Career ending moves for the man – try to push him towards Queensland as I would like to see the Reds do something (anything?)

I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up there in some capacity. He's a Queenslander.

As for Jeremy Paul – never rated him as a player myself but it doesn’t speak highly of his personal qualities either to agitate then leave – just as you say.

He's never taken the big, next step up. And I think he's been incredibly p*ssed off by playing second fiddle to Brendan Canon. Canon isn't the greatest hooker in rugby history, but he's wholehearted, where Paul can go missing.

Methinks he will receive an offer too tempting to refuse. Frankly any of the London clubs would be accessible to him from Oxford – and the west country clubs too. Hmm – Sarries or Glaws I wonder?

Or he might drop down a level. He's serious about his studies. At 28 or 29, he's way too young to give it away completely. OTOH, as I said once before, rugby has never been his whole life.

I suspect he will need time – much like I did after the losses to Ulster and Stade Francais this year.

So we're once more in line for months of denial and self-delusion?

I see Eddie has entered the Samo question. If you sign for an S12 franchise you have to be available for the Wallabies too right? So Samo is possibly contracted to Australia this calendar year and might not be released to honour the Falcons contract he has already signed - or to pursue his apparently voiced preference of Fiji/The Islanders. Could get messy?

Yes, you have to be eligible to play for Australia in order to play S12, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to play for Australia. Samo would only have been contracted to the Brumbies, not the ARU, and I expect that contract will have expired or is about to expire. He couldn't sign with Newcastle otherwise. So, by being eligible, he has fulfilled his S12 contract. Which isn't to say that he has to play for the Wallabies.

That legal stuff aside, I've just read the report and it does look to be getting messy.

1. Samo has said he's prepared to make himself available for the Wallaby squad before he leaves. Meaning he prefers the Wallabies to Fiji.

2. It sounds like Fiji are going to try to claim him. He played under-age for Fiji, but he's now qualified for Australia. So, if he doesn't want to play for Fiji, it appears Fiji will miss out. There was some astonishment here when Fiji didn't pick him for the World Cup. Perhaps their loss now.

3. But he has signed a contract with Newcastle. So says his manager. The Wallaby hierarchy have been down to talk to him. Ostensibly to ask whether his allegiance is to the Wallabies or Fiji, but, in reality, to persuade him to stay, I suspect. His manager, while saying he has signed with Newcastle, also seems to be worrying that the signature has compromised his chances with the Wallabies. Well, durrrr. Reading between the lines, I wonder if both Samo and his manager are having second thoughts about Newcastle - they signed before they realised the position into which Samo had played himself. In other words, they didn't expect to be threatening a spot with the Wallabies, and now they suddenly are.

Very, very interesting. Oh well, Chris Latham can always brief them on the finer points of breaking a signed contract with a NH club.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
Bound to have been. Deans has started him on the bench for most of the season. When he was fit. He showed his class every time he came on. This season he has also, strangely, involved himself more than he ever has, taking the ball up, not fleeing to full back as much as he used to. I can see Henry playing him in front of Carlos.

Yes, I could see that too. I don't even know why he was left out of the ABs in the first place. IIRC it was Mitchell wanting to build the AB game around Carlos after the success of the Blues last year that left Mehrtens ou tin the cold.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Actually what made the difference was more clinical finishing by one side - and a truly bizarre error by the Toulouse fullback at the end that gifted Howley the try.

Sheer luck has made the difference as far as I am concerned. Even on the stupid last try, the Wasps were lucky the video could not be used to judge what was before the try line as the ball touched the line out. The judges were too far away from the action to spot the problem.

The victory of the Wasps can largely been compared to a theft...

Is he on the transfer list Tamerlin?

Not yet!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Although I agree with Finbar that we watched a game of Sevens – and it was a game where both defences were simply shocking...

Definitely not my cup of tea...

The French aristocrats of the game gambled hugely this season to retain the crown – their wage bill is estimated at being between 4.5 and 5 million sterling equivalent this year!

A few years ago the French players were flying away to England because of the higher salaries... hospital mocking charity.

Originally posted by Finbar
Not to mention the single gap in the supporter ranks.

If it is played in Toulouse I will be there.

I suspect he will need time – much like I did after the losses to Ulster and Stade Francais this year.
His boys will be back – far too much talent there for them not to be.

The problem is that it is not the only game they have fumbled this year. I am currently worried because of the latest home loss which is endangering the end of the season. They don't have the right to lose anymore, when you consider they have to play wednesday away from home against the Biarritz Olympique they could finish the season without qualifying themselves for the final phases... which means no H-Cup next year.

Tigers will beat them in next years final at Murrayfield.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Yes, I could see that too. I don't even know why he was left out of the ABs in the first place. IIRC it was Mitchell wanting to build the AB game around Carlos after the success of the Blues last year that left Mehrtens ou tin the cold.

He's been named on the bench for the Probables in the Possibles -v- Probables ABs trial match next week. Carlos starts for the Probables. Aaron Mauger starts at 5/8 for the Possibles. And Tana Umaga has been named ABs skipper.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Definitely not my cup of tea...

Hospitals mock charity! Wasps' first try after half time was the result of crap Toulouse defence!

If it is played in Toulouse I will be there.